Help Wierd Dyno results

The back story... The 103+ heads were an after-thought. My 88 with 32K miles ate one of the cam bearings thus ruining the engine. The tech picked the parts based on rebuilding with the stock heads. I wasn't planning on spending too much more than putting a standard 88 back in.
So.. I, being a neophyte know I’m getting a 103 without 103 heads and saw a deal for 103 plus heads for 1/2 price. Parts guy matched the price but said I would need new computer, headers, pipes, big sucker air.. etc. which I did. The tech just installed the stuff without calling out the probable performance issues associated with the smaller cams and pistons with a monster size ports on the 103+ heads. Of course, at this point had he called me... I would have said do cams and pistons.. What the heck.. A few more bucks at that point I would have done if for sure.

I can't remember the pressure numbers but they are pretty poor with the 103+ heads and that, they say, is the reason we have poor no torque.. No compression.
So, putting the heads back on that we planned to is supposed to take care of the problem.

Since you bought all the stuff for a SE103, why not tell them to finish the 103 build with the right cam and pistons.
The tech really should have let you know that build would have issues.....it would be that last time I patronized that shop.
Hope it all works out for you.:devil:

The cams were supposed to be choosen based on how I ride. I ride about 30 miles to work each day all highway. On weekends I mostly tour. I rarely have a need to jump on it. Pressure, I don't remember, but I'm expecting it back this weekend and we'll find out.

First, thanks again to everyone.

OK.. Dealer says all is well. Responds as expected and designed. My request is for a bike that will get lots of miles before next rebuild. I ride almost every day and almost always do standard highway driving and touring. I rarely push it.

Well, with that information is this a reasonable dyno?

J,

There is no difference in the before and after dyno runs and you just spent 9 grand. Dude, grab you balls and go straight to the owner or the HD shop and ask him to explain that dyno sheet to you or your going to find a lawyer.

That's what I would do.

Stock heads back in

Got my bike back from the dealer this weekend. Here are the latest results.

While it is better, I'm not sure what to make of it. We have increases in all major RPMs on both Torque and HP. The builder is saying this is how it was designed.

Torque HP Delta
stock 103 stock 103 Torque HP
2200 90 88 33 32 2% 3%
2500 90 87 42.4 41.8 3% 1%
3000 86 82.2 49 45.8 5% 7%
3500 85.8 80 55 54 6% 2%
4000 82.8 80.2 63.5 61.5 3% 3%
4500 78.5 77 67 65.1 2% 3%
5000 73 73 69 69 0% 0%
5500 67 65 67 66 3% 2%
6000 55.5 55.5 65 65 0% 0%

I'm not what you would call a "Performance" kind of rider. I ride the bike just about every day. It is my daily ride, gets in the car pool lane, and my fun touring bike on weekends. I don't mind having plenty of torque on the low-end, it's where I spend most of my time. Runs good, sounds good, feels fine. Engine shakes a lot more then my friend's Springer SE.

So, we still have an issue? I just don't know. What should I be looking for now?

Nine Thousand Dollars !
$9,000.00 !
$9K !



That's one half a brand new bike

You could had a totally new engine for half that much.

:sucks2bu:

Take it back J, TAKE IT BACK, PLEEEEEEEEASE !!!!!!!

You deserve answers. Heck, we all deserve an answer to this

Some answers

Yep, we're not happy.. And I will continue to try and figure this out.

The heads are stock, I added a Big Sucker for air, SE Super Pro Tuner, Tour Muffler Kit, X-Dresser Header.

I pulled the air filter tonight to have a look. The bottom of the filter was discolored and very damp with oil (about 850 miles now). It looks like the throttle body is stock but I really don't know what I'm looking at But I am learning a lot....

When I pull back the throttle it does to open all the way up.

Have to work tomorrow. I've got to know someone about 50 miles away with a pretty nice shop and a good reputaion. I was thinking about taking down for him to go over it but I already know the dealer completely discounts anyone's thoughts who is not a current HD trained tech. I wonder what the chances are another dealer would actually point out any problems caused by a buddy.

Next steps, I really think I need a disinterested certified 3rd party to go over this. I'm trying to locate a contact for the owner of the dealership that won't be pre-filtered. The other dyno from hotroadking is sure helpful and drives home the point.

Got to go...

hotroadking,

The main thing is that he does not accept this. To me, it just seams like he really got ripped off. Thanks for helping out.

jwohlfer,

I don't mean to sound like I'm bitching at you. I just hate to see you get ripped off. Good luck. Keep us posted. I hope you don't take the way I say things personally.

Next Steps

I tried one last time today to talk with the store manager. I left a message but haven’t heard back.

Having this reviewed by a disinterested third party is exactly the next step. My attorney tells me this will be required anyway should this ends up in court. Yes, my attorney! The good news is that I am a member of a prepaid legal plan and 100% of my legal fees for this will be covered. Basically I have unlimited legal funding So, if we have to go to the mat on this I can and will. All I have to pay for are court and document fees.

The recommendation from my attorney is to use highly certified official Harley tech. I’m showing my ignorance but.. Do these guys work outside of dealerships? Or am I going to have to take it to another dealer? I'm just afraid it would be like trying to get a cop to rat on a cop

If so, where is a good place to find one? If not, he tells me it would be fine to use a non-Harley expert witness but it wouldn’t of course be the best way to go.

Anyone know a really good guy Harley guy in western Washington state who might be willing to check this out AND testify in court?

Oh.. Here is a link to a spreadsheet and graph that combines all the dyno results. The 103+ heads, the stock heads and the one posted by hotroadking. It isn't exact but it is pretty close

Thanks again to everyone! Without you guys I won't have a prayer of getting this worked out. Not that it has been yet but I'm hopeful we'll get there..

if your willing to travel the fella in Pocatello works for eagle-(chesters) has a good rep as a dyno tech been wrenchin on harleys sense 14-15 i believe HRK I bet will throw a couple names your way shortly. and for what its worth I find the bigger the problem the smaller the solution, the smaller the problem the bigger the solution...........something to think about

As I'm not qualified to choose anything, the parts place, designer/engineer/tech and dealer are all the same place. 100% of the parts select was left up to them, the experts. I wanted a 103 engine and expect it to perform correctly. The dealer picked all of the parts out and I bought all of the parts from them and they built it based on thier own parts selection not mine. I selected engine size. I bought every single part they told me I should buy.

I would understand they would be off the hook if all they did was build but they designed it.

I'm still hoping to hear from the store manager today but am in the process of getting a reputable tech to go over it. That should be done before my first meeting with the attorney which is a week from Monday.