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Liquid cooled vs Air cooled

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by jturuk, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. wblanton

    wblanton New Member

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    I had a 86' 1100cc sportster until last September when I bought my Fatboy.
    I had over 100,000 miles on that sportster and it still ran fine when I sold it. Fast as hell too! I have owned Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki's in the past 20+ years. I will never own another Japanise bike. They all have thier good points and bad but the whole riding experience is better for me on a Harley. Most people I know talk about how much faster thier ricers are, but they fail to understand that most harley riders aren't trying to break any speed records. It is all about the experience, which for most, even ex-ricers who used to curse Harley, the experience on a harley can't be matched by any ricer.

    As for liquid vs. air cooled. I don't think either can claim to be more reliable than the other. I have been left on the side of the road more on my ricers than either of my Harleys. the old thing of unreliable Harley I think is from the old AMF days. Starting with the EVO's harley has been very reliable.

    That is my peice on the issue anyway.

    Harley wins hands down with me.
  2. bikerjim1

    bikerjim1 Moderator

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    I'd like to throw a bit in edge-wise, and though it's a bit off the original subject, feel that it should be addressed anyways. There's a lot of new folks here, so the helping hand is extended. If a member flames you out just as had happened earlier this post, private message one of the moderators, or Ken. We'll get it stopped. That is not the purpose to this forum, and is what makes it stand apart from the others.
    Now, with that said, continue to enjoy!
  3. ringo912

    ringo912 Active Member

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    I agree with Seahag to a certain extent. People shoud not loose what they worked a lifetime for. However, someone needs to after the medical industry as a whole. Sure they spend millions and even billions on research for new drugs. But at the same time, do you ever here them talk about producing a drug to prevent anything? No, you only see the ones they come up eith to supposedly cure somethng. Just watch the TV commercials. This is a big money industry with a lot of power. The don't want people to healty, if we all were, they would be out of business. I could be wrong but greed is the power of all evil, not money. I find it hard to believe that in this day and age of technology, that there is no cure for cancer. I also find it hard to believe that in over a hundred years of building cars that the only option is the internal combustion engine. Bottom line is it's all about money and power.
  4. jturuk

    jturuk New Member

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    It was not my intent with my orginal post to flame anyone. Nor was it my intent to run down Harleys. It's not my style. After my post stirred up such a hornets nest I can see that some of my words were poorly chosen.

    From a Harley "quality" standpoint everyone that posts here has surely heard it over the years as have I that........ Harleys leak, they vibrate, etc.

    Did Harleys ever have these problems or was this a bunch of BS? I have no idea.

    If Harley ever had these problems have they been engineered out of the bikes? Once again I'm obviously not qualified to answer this question but from from the posts I've read on this board this would seem to be the case because the guys that ride them seem to love them.

    Did the afore mentioned problems or percieved problems influence my decision to buy the bike that I did? I'd be lying to you if I said it didn't.

    But this is my first bike (and if you think the Kawasaki's a peice of crap lemme have it, and I'll take it with a smile on my face) and I'll be getting a much closer look at Harleys in the future and who knows.....

    If I offended anyone with that post......my apologies

    John
  5. AFNurse

    AFNurse Moderator Staff Member

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    from my understanding, YES, HD leaked...mostly fixed now, tho I DID have a seal go bad and I leaked....since the seal was replaced, not a drop! yes they vibrate....women love the sensation!! :devil:

    If it is any consolation, for a new rider, I almost always recommend that they buy a used metric....."disposable" as I call it...practice on it, get used to riding, THEN start looking for "the bike of your dreams....metric OR HD".....you won't feel so bad dumping the "disposable" bike in the first year that you have it....better then dropping your dream ride! Best way to choose your ride is research the bikes on the market, talk to people that ride them...find out good and bad on their bike (every bike has good and bad points.....), then ride as many different bikes as you can to get a feel for them. Then buy the one that meets the most needs/wants that you have.

    Good to see you sticking around for a bit!
  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    to answer the leaking question YES they did leak!!! big time, but, they were designed to leak. there early oiling system was a total loss system. this means that the oil you put in the tank would eventually end up on the ground...but, there was a reason for this. the oil would go through the engine, circulate back into the tank, but there was a small amount that was diverted to the rear chain for keeping it lubed. also there was a small amount that was diverted to the primary chain to keep it lubed. there were no returns so it leaked to the ground....let me refrase that statment..."THEY MARKED THERE SPOT!!" in the mid 60's they came out with a sealed primary that was scavanged to the oil pump to eliminate that leak, but still held with the total loss to the drive chain. this stayed until the belts came along. the new models should not leak unless there is a problem. they have a total recovery oil system. hope this helps a bit.....
    welcome back!!
  7. ringo912

    ringo912 Active Member

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    In addition to what Chuck said, the quality was pretty bad during the AMF years. :puke: I guess their logic of. "if we can make a bowling ball, we can make a motorcycle" didn't quite pan out.:confused:

    I remember going into the local HD shop and seeing brand new bikes leaking on the showroom floor. Then they got smart. AMF starting shipping the new orders to the dealers without any fluids in them. The dealership would put the fluids in when you came to pickup your new bike.
  8. voodoochild

    voodoochild New Member

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    I'd like to say a few things.......they won't cure cancer because of the amount of money that is poured into research and development every year. Can you imagine how many jobs and companies would be lost if that disease was cured?? That would do a number on the economy. As far as health care costs, I've heard people say that there's no money in health care.....that's funny because I'm about to do a kitchen in a 4 million dollar house.....being built for a heart surgeon. No money in health care my a**!!

    As far as foreign cars versus domestic........I've always owned American cars. Most of the work trucks I've owned have been brand new. Now I must say, I owned an old Toyota pickup truck, ran great but might as well have been in a sardine can, thank god I never crashed it. I have owned a 91 chevy van, (piece of sh*t), a 99 Ford F-250 Super duty pickup, which I still have (piece of sh*t), an 03 Chevy Trailblazed (still have) piece of sh*t, an 03 and 04 GMC svannah (they're Ok).....Will I buy another American car......probably. I don't want my money going to a foreign country. Why do I put up with it, good question. The point of my rambling......I dunno. Just my stupid .02 that's all
  9. Tomflhrci98

    Tomflhrci98 Active Member

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    I ride a Harley because:
    I like the looks of them..
    I like the sound of them..
    and I like most of the people who ride them.

    I feel it is more about the experience then the quality. Motorcycles, to me, are not an necessity.

    As for necessity, and quality, I like my American Made Honda Accord. I know several people that work at the 3 Honda R&D sites in the USA - Los Angeles, Denver, and Detroit and they are all upstanding American born citizens.
  10. Av8erJB

    Av8erJB New Member

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    I am truly not trying to stir it up, but since this post has long since lost the point of aircooled vs watercooled... I have a 78' Shovelhead, which I absolutly love. Sooner or later I will purchase a new scooter. I will not buy Japanese!!! With all this discussion about what is better noone has mentioned Victory. Right now the Road King is what I am looking at most, but there are a couple of Victory bikes on the short list. Any opinions. The only person I know that has one is a dealer, so his opinion is biased more than most.
  11. voodoochild

    voodoochild New Member

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    Funny how the point of this thread is long gone, Huh!? :roflmao:
  12. Tomflhrci98

    Tomflhrci98 Active Member

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    Voo, Let me sum it up for you.

    Harley’s are better than Japanese bikes.
    Harley’s used to leak, but, they don’t now (yeah right).
    Water cooled bikes are OK too.
    Everyone needs Health insurance.
    Drug companies are ripoff.
    Chevy is better than Ford, but not as good as Toyota.

    Mean people suck. - Clem, you flammer.

    That’s what I got out of it. :roflmao: :roflmao:
  13. SK

    SK New Member

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    I just test road a new Stratoliner and all those items come stock on the bike. If you're gonna compare a Midnight Star, then compare it to an EG Std and figure out how much you have to add/pay to get the Std up to the Ultra..big big bucks. Gotta compare apples to apples and not oranges (makes the complete statement irrelevant).

    As far as profits going to Japan, they sure pay a lot of payroll into American worker bank accounts. So buying a Honda made in the USA for example..the payroll is putting food into a lot of American citizen stomachs. Either way you look at it, it helps our economy with paying jobs. While someone feels their putting their money into foreign banks for profit, you can also say you're helping Americans make a living with a decent job.

    As far as my "Buy American" statement, I'm just stating that it's a free country, something I represented in 8 years of military service. I buy what best fits me, especially when I'm paying a lot of money for it. Is it unAmerican to buy a foreign product (HD has a high percentage of parts foreign made, especially electrical components) over an American product? I certainly don't think so. What kind of tv does everyone have here? Bet no one owns a Sony. :roflmao:
  14. AFNurse

    AFNurse Moderator Staff Member

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    vicotry

    I have heard great things about the quality of Victory....have a buddy that does bike testing for the companies...American, metric, all of them....he rides the snot out of them, TRIES to break them and/or wear them out, and then do some type of service on them..... He stated one time that "if I had to get rid of all 6 bikes in my garage, and only own one.... I would seriously consider Vicotry...have one at the shop that I have only changed oil on, over 125K and still can't break it. Has more inches out of the box and looks good". I would consider victory, but already have HD.....
  15. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    i think your buddy needs a helper......let him know i am available!!!!!
  16. AFNurse

    AFNurse Moderator Staff Member

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    trust me....I have tried to figure out a way to get a "part time position" with him....he hasn't offered yet!
  17. ringo912

    ringo912 Active Member

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    How much is a stratoliner?
  18. Sleepy

    Sleepy Well-Known Member

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    uh what was the question again

    I'm not sure I agree with the japanese vehicles being superior as a blanket statement. Some of their stuff is great, some not so. The american car industry is getting a wake up call and some of the stuff they're churning out is looking good. We've been programmed to think that domestic is garbage and it is going to take a long time to get over that. You've picked a pretty good bike, they ride well, make decent power, look pretty good. One of the great appeals of the Harley was its simplicity, ease of maintenance, long production runs of the same family of power plant and they didn't stray too far from the earlier recipes. It is getting away from that now but compared to some of the other bikes, they're still somewhat simple. You're seeing more Harleys out now because they're a lot cheaper than they used to be, they're comfy, reliable and easy to ride. What I like is that should a part break on a 10-20 year old bike, you can still get it without too much fuss. If I guy doesn't get too stupid you can rack up a lot of miles on an air colled Harley before there's trouble with 'em
  19. Seahag

    Seahag New Member

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    Concerning what Sleepy just said. Around the turn of the century, I was a subscriber to Consumer Reports magazine. One of the things I remember reading and feeling good about was in their annual car buyers guide report. CR reported that American car manufacturers had been copying the Japanese formula for success and product quality for some years and it was really starting to pay off. Their claim then [remember this is 6-7 years ago] was that domestic car quality was catching up and nearly on par with the Japanese imports. Their feeling was that most cars from the mid-90's on were considerably better made and longer lasting values than had ever been produced domestically.

    The wife and I still own our 94-96 Chevy products, which are paid for, and are helped to stay on the road with the assistance of a friend who is a ASE certified mechanic...But that report always stuck with me, making me hopeful for our next car purchases, as they will surely be better than what we drive now....which isn't too bad.:cool:
  20. SK

    SK New Member

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    Top of the line, around $15k or so. I believe they come with a 5yr unlimited mileage warranty at no extra cost (most likely built into MSRP).

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