Look what we git for bailin out GM

I agree. It's a global economy anymore. Union or no Union you will always find children to do the work for pennies in other countries. As long as they got that, manufacturing is done in this country.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. That's just he way it is.

Heck, even HD is making bikes in India now.

I think that you are right on here...It is easy to make the union a scapegoat in situations like this. Bad Management is bad Management....PERIOD!!!!! This isn't about the unions really....It is about management brass wanting to line their own pockets by doing whatever it is that they have to in order to make that happen...

BTW FLHT, this thread isn't about Ford or even KIA, it is about GM, but since it was brought up, I am sure that there are parts that Ford uses that are built in different countries.... Better to have an American brand car than a NON-American brand car like KIA or Mazda......Apple and Oranges my friend....Why do you think that Ford is kicking GM's and Chrysler's ashhh? Do you think this is by accident????:gah:

HRK brought KIA into the conversation, not me... Unions are not 100% of the problem dude..... They are a huge contributing factor, but are not 100% at fault or cause... If Ford is being choked so hard, why are they still breathing??? I believe the UAW is in all three?????? How is Ford able to make it but not GM or the other one???? The answer is because Ford's management restructured long before the recession. Management, not the Union did that....Management made that decision, and management went to the union to make it happen.....Everything is about how well things are managed....

No I do not, but don't just put the blame entirely on the union when it is not entirely their fault. I hate Unions and I agree with you 100% that they are really no longer needed and that they are just a bunch of parasites.....I commend the forward thinking that Ford exhibited before the recession, they didn't take $1 from you or I and they are stronger than ever....

Here's my two cents: Best job in New York = Operating Engineer on a construction job. For every piece of power equipment (including little Honda generators) you must have a union Operating Engineer. You can usually find them sitting on their arses or sleeping in their vans until the generator requires gas or to be shut off or turned on. Pay: more than $80 per hour. If there is a trowel to be used you must be a union mason. Pay, almost $60 hr. The liist goes on. In the convention center you must hire an Local 3 Electrician to PLUG IN A LINE CORD!!!! Better not do it yourself or your equipment will be trashed. County police here on Long Island are unionized, after three years base pay of $103,000. Police are retiring (getting bought out) with checks of over $200,000 (unused sick time) plus 3/4 pay more than $87,000 year! Union people are told by their unions, "vote for the democrats" "you better vote for the democrats" why? "Unions aren't the problem" right. :angry:

I just don't understand where you and FLHT say that I like the Unions? I just don't like the fact that GM is moving another aspect of their business outside of the U.S.:angry: GM claims that this is to increase profitability...That makes sense to me, however, I also said that I think that this has an opposite long term effect. More jobs outside of the U.S. means more Americans out of work that don't have the money to buy things like homes, cars and other worldly goods....Which is bad for a car manufacturer....Don't you think?

When you gave your example of what these people make for a salary it is just a great illustration as to what is wrong with the unions. can't and won't argue with you there.

To summarize my complaint, I would rather pay the higher price for a vehicle that is made here in U.S. and keeps Americans employed. That has nothing to do with me being either against or pro union....it is Pro American.....Another aspect of what angers me and which I said was that I am angered that GM is doing this despite all of the negative aftermath that will follow, which is, less jobs for Americans, stable, if not increased vehicle price (For GM), increased profit for GM which I do not see dividends or interest since I am part owner of,, large ridiculous bonuses etc......:gah::cussing::angry:

No, I am just pissed because we (you and I) gave them money and see none of the return...... I will never defend a union......We went into a fair amount of detail about them in school both in grade school and in college....My dad works for a union and he hates it.....

I agree with your thought process about how they should do whatever it is they can to get rid of the Union.......One thing I do not remember learning but is there a different way for them to dissolve the union other than leaving the country relocating period???

Is that the going rate for real? Holy cow. I guess there are no non union construction contractors in New York?..just a question.

That WAS the rate five years ago when I was selling products to construction jobs in NYC. It can only be higher now. As far as union only, yes unless the project is a personal home. But any public works or high rise MUST be union. Further, the City has pay guide lines that the company MUST follow and prove to the city it's paying on City projects..

So what's the hot topic going on ?

GM has gone to Mexico to build a lot of new engines.
The point is, if the people bailed them out, why would they not keep the jobs here. If it wasn't for the american people they wouldn't be here.
The White HOuse should have to stand up and say why they didn't do something about the Labor Unions before they started Bailouts.
Why didn't the Union bail them out.
Why not let Mexico bail them out if they are gonna take the jobs down there.