1. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

New ignition

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by podsman, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    Greetings gentlemen, I have a situation where I had to replace the stock sender in the cone because the gunk was leaking out. I replaced it with the Ultima d 200i every thing in the cone single fire unit. The bike runs good and when you twist the throttle she goes hard like you want. Problem is when you are running about 1500 rpms or so it sounds like badly adjusted points breaking down. When you rev it it comes right out of that she and runs great. What could that be? The bike is a 98' heritage 80 cubic incher with cv carb. I static timed her and otherwise she runs great. What could be going on here?
  2. bambidee

    bambidee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    upstate n/y
    This started at the EXACT time when you changed the ignition, not before. And NOTHING else was changed. Do not take me wrong but sometimes small details get left out and we all scratch our heads bald.lol Never used the product, is there options on advance curve? Did you have to change any carb adjustments?
  3. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    Lets see, it started with the installation of the ignition. As far as the carb goes, I re-jetted to 46/175, no pops or backfire. It has cvp velocity needle the ez just is at 2 1/2 turns out.
  4. bambidee

    bambidee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    upstate n/y
    Did you rebuild the carb at same time as the ignition swap?
  5. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    No, it was the first thing I did afterward to make sure that wasn't the problem.
  6. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    No, I did that afterward, thinking it might be the carb. It was running rich and was needed anyway.
  7. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    10,497
    Likes Received:
    133
    Location:
    Tampa FL
    This sounds like the VOES setting on the module is not set correctly, or the VOES has been disconnected. Check that the setting on the ignition (SW1) is set to VOES Normal (or OFF). You would think that ON would be the correct setting, but it's not. A setting of VOES ON will retard the timing too much and is used for for nitrous or turbo equipped bikes (according to Ultima). The ON setting also overrides the VOES and the ignition follows a single advance curve without recognizing different vacuum conditions.

    For an 80" Evo, switches SW2 and SW3 should both be set to OFF which provides a more aggressive advance curve.

    Also check the settings for Single Fire are not set to Dual Fire, and that you are using a coil or coils designed for single fire. You probably already have the correct coil that shipped with that ignition.

    I suspect this is some setting on that ignition and not carburetor related.
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,331
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    You mean like the manual says to do LOL

    I've been through that with the Ultima on a 113 ElBruto
    the problem wasn't the ignition but the guy that owned
    the bike thinking if x degrees of advance was good, then X+1
    was going to be better...

    Follow Kens tips, the instructions can be confusing,
    as to what switch settings to use.
  9. kenfuzed

    kenfuzed Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    10,497
    Likes Received:
    133
    Location:
    Tampa FL
    Ha exactly, those stupid little switches seem as if they are labeled completely opposite of what they mean. I've had a couple of those Ultima and Dyna ignitions so I speak from experience on setting them wrong. You end up chasing a problem you set yourself. Lessons learned. For basic shovels and Evos I still like these Ultima ignition modules for their simplicity, price and reliability... or at least they've never failed me yet. I have one sitting ready to go on my shovel once I find the time to work on it.
  10. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    Thanks guys, I'm pretty sure I did set the voes switch to on and will check 2 and 3. Haven't gotten to it yet, but will let you know how it goes.
  11. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,331
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    You want VOES off not on..... Hopefully that was clear in Kens post,
    as setting of on will cause you issues like you have....

    And don't give it all the timing you can, not good, causes excess heat
    and detonation, thats what my buddy did with his 113, then he wondered
    why it was dropping rear valve seats LOL twice.

    I'd set it back, he'd move it up.

    Finally the guy doing the heads who was in on the problem
    asked him about timing, when my friend explained how far
    he advanced it he told him that he'd caused his own problems
    with the heads, twice and to leave it the F alone... LOL

    He's left it alone now and it runs great and no more engine
    overheating/valve seats dropping.
    Kenny Joe likes this.
  12. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    Well I think I might need a voes. Double checked it and the switch was already switched off. Should the voes light on the unit be on? Anyway if I turn it on or off no difference. In regards to the voes it seems to me the light would not come on in normal operation, unless I am mistaken, normal is open circuit.
  13. podsman

    podsman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sterling VA
    Another thing just in case I got it wrong, exactly where do I connect the voes wire from the ignition module? I currently have it connected the violet and white wire just before the old ignition module. According the wiring diagram, and it is the correct pin on the connector.
  14. newsteve1

    newsteve1 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm back for more. I still can't get this correct.

    It seems to be a rich situation I encounter at wide open. The bike sputters, loses power. I smell like gas. To confirm, after my ride, I pulled the air filter and fuel drips out.

    There is a tiny bit of hesitation off Idle if I blip the throttle. If I roll up the RPM it responds wonderfully; feels strong rides well.

    Current carb set up: CVP needle, CVP 42/170, EZjust 2.25 out (mixture seems to have no effect). Down from 44/175 (where noted conditions were worse - top end faltering more significant and low-end sloppy/hesitant).

    All factory ignition (this is a 97 xl1200 - open pipes + air filter + plugs Iridium plugs with less than an hour on them)

    I grabbed a vac pump and tested the VEOS (functioning at 4).

    CVP choke bracket/cable installed: Enricher working (not stuck open/closed)

    Recently Timed. This offered MUCH improvement, but I'm thinking this "rich at WOT" condition could be caused by a problem with the advance?

    Really don't know what else to look for. I'd hate to pay for a new ignition if I don't need one, but I feel like that's all that's left?

    Anyone have any ideas?

    I'm at 7000' altitude and it's cold (if that matters).
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,331
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    If you move the mix screw and nothing changes your
    pilot jet is too large, ie rich. I'd drop it another size
    to a 40, readjust and go from there, work on one jet
    at a time, get the pilot right then work on the main.
  16. bambidee

    bambidee Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    upstate n/y
    In the begining you talked of a burble or poor run at 1500. It sounds like that has been fixed but now not happy at wide open? Any possibility of a restricted air filter?

Share This Page