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No oil top end

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by cowboy, Jun 25, 2011.

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  1. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    I have the Cam cover off , do you mean the Cam plate? not enough oil in the cam cover area to even try to catch in a pan
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
    cowboy, Jul 11, 2011
    #21
  3. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    jack the wheel and spin it over...oil should run out.....if not the pump quit.....
    chucktx, Jul 12, 2011
    #22
  4. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    yep have it up , I turned the rear wheel to line up the cam gear dots, Not one drop extra came out :witsend::banghead:Guess a call to a dealer to see if I can buy just the oil pump from the SE hyd kit :angry:
    cowboy, Jul 12, 2011
    #23
  5. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    SE kit pt # 25284-08 Hyd cam chain tensioner plate upgrade kit , this is the kit that was put in my bike along with the andrews tw26 cams , Thinking about going back to the stock cams as well since I'll be in there anyway , just not sure about the cams , in the 1200 miles tops since this work was done, They seem to pull higher RPMs at about 80 mph then the stock cams I when i get to ride the hwy I like to cruse about 80
    cowboy, Jul 12, 2011
    #24
  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    have you pulled the pump and looked at it???? i cant remember if there is a key on the shaft or not......may have spun it..............
    chucktx, Jul 13, 2011
    #25
  7. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Not yet trying to find the time , just have the rocker cover & push rods out & cam cover off
    cowboy, Jul 13, 2011
    #26
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    yep cam covers gotta come off, need to inspect the pump, something might have fubar'd and sent metal into the pump I'm betting you have more to deal with than just a failed pump.. Hope not but odds are either the lines are blocked or the pumps jammed...
    hotroadking, Jul 13, 2011
    #27
  9. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    I blew air threw the top end & where the oil cooler& fitter mount all good there , now to take the cam plate & cams out & go from there , i'am going to see if the stock pump will fit with the SE kit , I called the dealer (cowboys HD ) & there on back order
    cowboy, Jul 13, 2011
    #28
  10. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks to lucifer for the info on the lifter tool $22 & got them today from a dealer SE pt# 93979-10 horse shoe shaped magnets to life & hold the lifters up , Going to try them out tomorrow :D Then put the cam plate & cams out & look at the pump ,I talked to a guy today & he said (like HRK) there more wrong in there , or some thing jammen the pump , said he's put a lot of them in & never seen the pump go out , so time will tell :rant:
    cowboy, Jul 13, 2011
    #29
  11. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok the new magnets work great , but this is what I found inside ImageUploadedByTapatalk1310698938.747502.jpg that's the gears that set in the pump
    cowboy, Jul 14, 2011
    #30
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    its hard to see but it looks like the inside gear/rotor went kaboom?

    That would stop oil flow. wonder what caused it, being it's a new pump
    I'd take it back to the dealer, if you cannot find something else wrong,

    I would think a bit of metal or a screw or something got in there and jammed it up..

    Or it was just defective...

    At least you know what it is... Sucks...
    hotroadking, Jul 15, 2011
    #31
  13. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Yea that does suck Cowboy, glad you know what it is. Now your going to really have to flush it good so you know there are no metal pieces in the system. Good luck with it and hope it all goes back together well. :D
    FLHTbiker, Jul 15, 2011
    #32
  14. joshbob

    joshbob Well-Known Member

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    What a mess. But now you know what it is. How does one go about flushing the system out?
    joshbob, Jul 15, 2011
    #33
  15. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    josh there a magnet on the drain plug , But in this case , I wont have to do that, wien I pulled the cam plate all was clean it there, I pulled the oil pump & thats when the gears fell into my hand :rant: The stock 88 pump wont work , so Tuesday I go get the pump for the cam kit HD does sell them seperate & only $200 , I did blow air threw the system & it seem s to come of the heads alright ,
    cowboy, Jul 17, 2011
    #34
  16. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    That really sucks!!...No warranty on the pump??....Did you put the jigsaw puzzle back together to see if there are any pieces missing??
    Lucifer, Jul 18, 2011
    #35
  17. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    No warranty :witsend: I installed it not HD , & yes all the pieces are there , It bolts right onto the cam plate so parts could'nt fall out , Had to let it set today , But tommorow wifes at work & I can get back out to the shop & pull the cam plate again & try to run the 25 miles one way to gwet the new pump as I write this I remembered that I have'nt tried the cam plate it self , to see if oil/air runs throu it heck it might be pluged the broken gears show no sigh of getting hot , so at this point I'am stumped :eek:
    cowboy, Jul 18, 2011
    #36
  18. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Defect or something got sucked in. Inspect everything and clean thoroughly to be sure


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    hotroadking, Jul 18, 2011
    #37
  19. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    yep , going to pull the cam plate again & see about that & change the oil again better safe the sorry :D
    cowboy, Jul 18, 2011
    #38
  20. ringo912

    ringo912 Active Member

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    Hey Cowboy....I have done several cam and cam plate upgrades so here's a little info that might help.

    The lash clearance on the gerotor teeth is very tight, .0005-.001", so alignment of the pump is critical. A mis-aligned pump can cause the gerotor teeth to bind and break.

    Not sure how you did the last install, so here is a few tips. Do not bolt the pump to the cam plate and install the assembly as one unit. Starting with the 03' models, HD change the bearing on the pinion shaft, the new bearing has a little more play in it.

    The pump housing bolts to the cam plate, and the gerotors are aligned with the flats on the pinion shaft. So the key is to have the pump gerotors align themself with the natural rotation of the pinion shaft, not the pump housing with the cam plate. Do not use the tapered oil pump alignment pins that you can buy. These only align the pump housing with the cam plate.

    Install the oil pump into the cam chest first. Make sure that the sump port on the back side of the pump is seated properly in the o-ring that is in the hole going to the flywheel side of the engine. I usually install the o-ring into the hole in the case, then lube the sump port on the pump and push it into the installed o-ring. Make sure it is seated properly in the o-ring, if not seated correctly, the pump will not sump the oil from the flywheel side properly.

    After the pump is installed in the cam chest, install the cam plate assembly. Install the outer screws into the cam plate and only 2 of the 4 oil pump screws. Install these 2 screws diagonally from each other and tighten just enough to set the pump against the back of the cam plate.


    Now torque all the outer cam plate scews to spec. Put the bike in 5th gear and with the rear wheel rotate the engine while hand tightening the 2 oil pump screws. I usually rotate the engine 3-5 times. This allows the gerotors to align themselves with the natural rotation of the pinion shaft. Since the tolerances are very close in the pump, the gerotors will position the pump housing correctly on the cam plate as they are aligning themselves with the pinion shaft. Tighten the 2 oil pump screws to spec, install the other 2 pump screws and tighten them to spec.


    Hope this helps ya! Let us know how it works out.
    ringo912, Jul 22, 2011
    #39
  21. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep that's the way you do it,
    and done properly you won't get the famous
    high speed oil blow by all over your leg from the head
    breathers...
    hotroadking, Jul 22, 2011
    #40
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