Not supporting the V-Rod?

Everyone knows the LQ engines are coming solely because of BS global warming/climate change/ give me your earned dollars so I can give them to my voters who were offended by (insert liberal excuse for not working here) and will support my politics. Will H-D survive? Probably not, because - whatever else you may think - H-D sells freedom, or at least the illusion of freedom. That can not be tolerated!

Or maybe we just stand up for ourselves, stop being so frickin' ready to restrict someone else's rights for our "right" to not be offended (by cigarette smoke, loud noises, perfumes or just plain being afraid to see us) and deal with the ultimate injustice - being born alive.

And maybe, too, someone with so many great friggin' ideas can start his/her own MoCo that is perfect in every way and .... ooops, doers do - they don't just have ideas, they create things.

Need more rum............. too sober to tolerate the professorial nonconstructives. Or maybe I'm channeling Cardboard?:roflmao:


:cheers:

On the contrary, I am giving your bike kudo's in the aspect that it is liquid cooled.

I guess I need a little further clarification. Why are you so bent about the treatment of the V-Rod when you really do nothing but chastise it?? As HRK, said with his comparison about the JIMS 120R engine, it is targeted for a specific market. Water cooled or air cooled, it should not matter because it really seems like you are not interested.

I look at like this. Harley took a chance. It is obvious in your opinion that they missed. But did they really?? In my opinion it seems that they are addressing the needs of a specific market. Are they doing much about improving it?? Well judging from this entire thread, it seems that they are not. There are reasons for that. Again, they took a shot and could have been of target. Big deal? I guess that just show's that the old cliche is still going hard and strong, which is, Shiiit Happens. Again, to HRK's point, the economy is terrible, not just for the consumer, but for companies more importantly. I find it highly responsible for a company to neglect, which in this case or discussion, seems to be Harley's lack of further investment into a product that is not doing as well as they thought it would. Do you not think that if they kept investing money into this dead dog to be beneficial? If so, to who? Harley is acting responsibly to all who is affected???

For the same reason I disliked the total lay-off of all of the Janesville truck assembly line workers, although I have never bought a Chevy. I hate waste and foolishness--especially when it involves money or politics.

Yes, I dislike the current V-Rod, but not the concept or the belief that Harley made a mistake. The handling of the Buell and now the VRSC program is a tragedy. In fact, we also discussed the bizarre handling of the Sportster line.

Again, my hope is that inside MocCo's skunkworks there's a liquid cooled bike with more traditional styling.

Actually LQ engines have nothing to do with global warming. And global warming is all about CO2 which is not yet regulated.

If you look up the emissions cert numbers for all the HD engine families for what is regulated CO+NOx it looks like the big 1540 and larger engines are the only HD engines that come under the EPA standard.

All the small engines such as V-Rod (liquid 1247), air cooled 1200 and 883 are way above the standard. In other words these engines failed regardless of the liquid cooled or not. The only reason they are allowed on the street is because of the fleet average is still under a certain level. I think the reason the 1540 and larger engines pass so well is because they have a better catalyst but that is only my guess.

So I don't understand why everyone thinks HD is going with radiators unless there is a engine durability issue not an emissions issue.

I am not sure if everyone thinks that they are going to liquids. to me it sounds It sounds like most against the idea of a liquid cooled HD. At least that is my impression. I do not want a liquid HD, but if they choose to make one, other than the V-rod, oh well.

Like it or not the emissions standards are going to be tightened as time goes on. For example, the Screaming Beagle pipes on Betty aren't even made anymore.

Additionally, laws get passed mandating technology that doesn't even exist yet. For example, California is pushing for "zero emissions" vehicles. Isn't that a sailboat?

(Oh, and BTW, the power companies that supply all of that electricity will still make it by burning coal.)

Here's another analogy. Companies like Crucible have long been criticized by cutlers for not producing the steel my industry needs or wants. That's because we only buy 4% of their production. Custom makers used to have to melt down ball bearings or old aircraft turbine blades.

Same with us. If the government clamps down on us, just exactly how big is our political clout? Certainly not enough to halt the EPA.

For many of us the engines of 1936 is what we want to ride and the VRSC is an abortion. How long will that continue? Since we cannot stop the march of history it is my hope that a better liquid cooled bike is on MoCo's horizon.

Right now I do not see that happening.

:hijacked: for getting to the real issue of the V-Rod

Of course it would be. But there's a big problem here, one that covers more than V-Rods.

Lots of Harley owners don't like change--on any of their bikes. I've lived through three such periods. One for eliminating kick starters, one for eliminating carburetors, and one for lowering Sportsters for women.

Each change was initially attacked because it was never done "in the old days." And each argument ended with some comment like, "Real men don't need it, and if you do, buy a Honda."

I don't like the V-Rod, but simply because it's one butt ugly design. I believe that liquid cooling has merit for Harley. But that means that MoCo is going to have to support the idea, and I do not believe they are.

The problem with emissions isn't air-cooled/liquid-cooled, it's with the shiiit gas they are forcing down our throats. If better quality gas was available even my bargo-lounger wide seat land barge would pass emissions BS
As for the V-rod to me it's a sportster on steroids it's a "niche" bike not meant to appeal to the masses and especially the true nostalgic HD buyer! I want my 06 flh to look like a 1960's flh but handle and perform like a 21st century bike should,and that's what HD has done!!

Now it's 40`F and sunny and my air-cooled HOG is screamin at me from the garage and my neighbors Goldwing sofa won't run for shiit unless he warms it up with a baby blanket first LOL

Again HRK I think that you hit the nail on the head and it has been stated before. The V-Rod was not intended for the masses. If it were HD would have continued to improve it on steady basis from its inception. I also agree that why should HD spend the revenue on something that is not needed at this particular time? here is an honest question. When the time comes for the liquid cooled bagger, don't you think that the V-rod is in perfect position to become the model for which HD models all other bikes after?? I do.

I agree 100%. The problem for all of us is that stifling R/D won't help anybody.

For example, I bought a new Harley with a single leading shoe front brake when Honda had a hydraulic disc for almost three years. How did that fact benefit all Harley riders?

I see this water-cooled issue once again placing MoCo in the "catch up" position. While other bike companies will have had almost two decades of actual feedback from real customers, Harley will have nothing but the same old V-Rod.

Hotroadking, that's a beauty alright. I'll bet it actually can be ridden on the street too! Tourist, since you have a Dyna, doesn't it compare favorably to the Sporty in terms of better ride quality, torquey motor for comparable performance, better fuel economy and range? I never thought the weight difference between the two was much, and uses the extra few pounds for a better ride.

The V Rod has the same 49mm front forks as the Dyna, and the same rear shocks as well. I'm not sure, but I think the Rod is also a bit lighter.

Forgot to mention that I had a Honda CL 450 also. It was a good performer and would embarass any British 650 or 750 of the day in a race. Honda was miles ahead of the Brits in technology and was instrumental in their demise.

Harley, on the other hand, built mostly big touring bikes that were not designed to be racers. They excelled in that category then, and still do today. You may not be able to see it easily, but H-D's built today are light-years ahead in tech. compared to the even the 90's models.

The V Rod is as close to a sport bike as H-D will ever get. But then again, it was never meant to compete against 4 cyl. pure sport bikes anyway. I would not call it a cruiser either. It's sort of in it's own category.

I remember a few years back someone asked why all the other cycle manfrs had bikes with more HP then HD - why can't HD keep up? And a reply came back that I will never forget - the competitors have to have better technology than HD or they will never keep up with HD's sales numbers.