Not supporting the V-Rod?

Your comment points out the opposite side of the condition. And that's the illusion that "sales are good." In truth, sales are mediocre and dropping.

First off, the average age of a Harley client is 47. Even if the bikes got better--and I'm not sure that they are truly are--the clients are dwindling.

You don't have to be in shops long to realize that marketing and image has replaced innovation. I don't mind a little customization, but I have updated my bike's oil pump, front end and rear suspension. That is a little deeper than "chrome and paint."

You could argue that it's my money and I can shop elsewhere. Yikes, if we bought every product like that we'd actually own nothing. There's a flaw or a design issue in every manufactured product you can secure with an off-the-shelf price.

Using that same argument you could surmise that American drivers shouldn't buy plastic ricer cars because they still sell horses and saddles.

MoCo needs an influx of R/D and liquid-cooled bikes are a part of that. Besides, if this is a deal breaker to you, remember that engine companies still sell knuckle engines, magnetos and carburetors. You can easily duplicate a bike from the 1940s. I don't think that's the ultimate answer to running a successful corporation.

Your first point is that "they" don't make a motorcycle that is 100% to your liking. True, "they" don't make motorcycles just for you - they make them for the "market demographic". You would me damn lucky to find a motorcycle you won't want to change anything on. This is true for everyone on this forum.

Your second point is how HD keeps up with technology and I say that if their sales don't suffer they don't have to. But, like GM, when HD gets to the point where they need government intervention to stay alive then and only then (hopefully before) will they make what sells - whatever that is. They funny thing is what is selling good for GM right now is a combination of "old school" Camaro and the new age technology such as the hybrids. There doesn't seem to be a silver bullet.

You are correct sir! Remember the late 1950's Corvette? If you think they are old technology (drum brakes, solid rear axle, a.m. radio, push-rod V8 with points ignition, etc.), then why does a clean one sell for over $100 grand today? There are many examples of crude 1960's muscle cars that fetch upwards of $200k today, and people can't seem to get enough of them.

If Detroit continued to make them, they'd sell every one, and folks would still speak lovingly about them. Harleys will be the same way.....you watch and see.

That old Detroit iron sells big because of their inherent simplicity and ageless style. Frequently when they are restored, the drum brakes are tossed, as are the radios, points ignition, engine mods, exhaust system, and bias-ply tires. Nobody messes with the styling!

The new renditions of the old Camaro, Mustang, and Charger are proof of what we want and are willing to spend money for. Yes, they are thoroughly modern underneath the sheet metal, but their souls are still thumping engines and simple, clean lines. Have you ever seen a high-tech Japanese ANYTHING that stirs your heart like that?

Yep, gotta admit that new Camaro made me think of a four-wheeled ride. Sweet looking homage to the old and yet a beast that would blow the stripes off the classic models. And it could stop, too!

I just couldn't get one of those without driving it too fast, so I'll stick with my 4X4s and bikes for the streets. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate 'em though.

I agree. My talking point is that our V-Rod is a part of modern ongoing innovation like any other application.

For example, my Dad was an avid woodworking hobbyist. He used a bubble level. If you got to Sears, you can find they sell levels that utilize a laser. That's their use of innovation in an existing facet.

So is a "liquid cooled Harley." The buying public doesn't care much for the existing V-Rod. But that doesn't mean that it should be erased from biking history.

I had that feeling with Soft tail custom that I test rode a few month ago but only with the shifting. One would have to have the foot the size of Andre the Giant in order to shift that bike comfortably. :gah:

Yes it is, and for much the same reason.

The Edsel was one of the first automotive products whose design was driven by what we now call "focus groups." They asked the buying public "what do you want?" Ford based a lot of their design input on that survey.

The problem was that they asked the wrong question. They should have asked, "What would you purchase?"

In that same vein I have seen the cable show program on how MoCo designed the V-Rod. Many of us have always opined that we wanted a "modern Harley," so they built one. If you look at your average parking lot, many of the metric V-twins have radiators.

The more we debate here I am beginning to believe that they should seriously design a totally different liquid cool engine, phase it into the dealerships at the same rate they phase out the V-Rod for good. I'm beginning to doubt that the idea of just designing a better format in a dresser using the same V-Rod engine is going to work.

The buying public might just fixate on the same old liquid cooled engine and dismiss the entire bike.

Good points. In discussing this subject with our local salesmen they think the V-Rod might have a better customer base for Europe.

Another thing about this topic is just the sad economy. A V-Rod in my area is about the same cost as a Dyna. Sadly, lots of guys with disposable income want "a real Harley." And the current trade in price for a V-Rod is dismal. Locally we have a used one unwanted on our showroom floor. And there are lots of unsold Electra Glides to steal the thunder.

I think this has become a bike that people need but not too many want.

After owning a StreetGlide set up for touring (which is very easy to build) for a couple years, I'd like a V Rod in my stable just to do a long term comparison. The one I test-rode had mid controls, which I liked, but handlebars and seat were awful.

It's little stuff like this that is holding buyers back. But that engine is really a jewel, and the forks and brakes are outstanding. Stock exhaust system is a shame.

I thought the forks felt "rubbery" and imprecise. Granted, I took a very short test ride, but the bike cornered like a wheelbarrow. It's hard to evaluate an engine when the rest of the bike is "getting in the way."