oil change

CD, the bikes I was referring to in the earlier years were all air cooled, they were before the liquid cooled ones. I'm not disputing the synthetics can withstand higher temps, but sometimes I think the idea of using synthetics gives some riders the idea their maintenance schedules can be relaxed. Synthetics have came a long way since their inception, providing unheard of protection not achievealbe by dino oils. All I'm saying, and again, this is my opinion, people were getting just as many miles out of their equipment with conventional oils by performing regularly scheduled maintenance.

I had one shop NOT recommend synthetics for use in a limited slip rearend application. It was due to the fact it rendered the clutch pack ineffective. They would not warrant the rearend limited slip unit if you used anything but dino oil. They were adamant about changing it annually however, so it does have its shortcomings as well. I realize this is not the samething as our engines, but it could be applied to the wet clutch(?).

Do I plan on using synthetics? I have four quarts of Mobil 1 V-Twin that will be installed at the next oil change. I live where the summer temps easily hit the century mark.

Why the "CF" required designation from Harley? No where on petroleum oil does it state the "CF" application, i.e. M/C oil. Is this determential? I noticed none of the other major brands of oil, even designated motorcycle oils, had that designation either (ones I saw at the auto supply). Maybe they DON'T meet Harley's requirement. ?

I have an 03 883 XLH as well and I run Amsoil (not an agent) 20/50 in both holes. Trans shifts smooth, and the engine runs cooler. One thing I have noticed is that the lifters seem slightly more noisey/ticky with synthetic. I have 30k kms so I'll change them soon anyhow. I run Amsoil in my jeep as well and it seems to like it, and I like the fact I can change the oil twice a year. Volkswagen specifies using synthetic in their turbo diesel because of coking in the turbo when using dino oil.

up date on all motor oils

Hotroadking. I think i will look in to this a bit more because i think you are on to something, The last time we had a seminar was a long time ago when it had anything to do with oils. After looking up and making myself a bit more up to date on oils i will let you know Your bike friend Greg Mercedes, Porsche and BMW you are right thats all they except to keep the warranties going

A word of caution to those of you who use car/truck oils instead of motorcycle oils. At one time there was very little difference in those oils and engines and car/truck oils could be used in motorcycles. However now with API SM car oils and the new truck oils to be released this fall, there are some very major differences in car/truck and motorcycle oils.

I think it is best to stick with motorcycle oils for now. They are formulated for and tested in motorcycles. Car/truck oils are not. If you call the oil manufacturers, the ones I have spoken with no longer recommend car/truck oils in motorcycles. If you call the motorcycle manufacturers, they will discourage you from using car/truck oils and may tell you if you have an oil related failure, your warranty maybe voided. Why take a chance? Motorcycle oil is cheap, repairs are expensive.

I think some of this "It's OK to use car/truck oils in motorcycles" came from the well publicised article in Motorcycle Consumer News. This was published in 1994 and was probably true at the time, but not anymore. Car/truck oils have gone thru lots of formulation changes for increasing gas mileage, reducing catalytic converter "poisoning", and reducing sulfur emissions. Good for the environment, bad for motorcycles.

So what is supposed to change to this falls formulations?

API CJ-4. You can read about it at http://www.rotella.com/.

From what I gather reading the link you provided as well as one found with a google search, this new cj-4 standard won't affect those of us running automotive oils like Mobil 1 15W-50 at all.

The CJ-4 standards are for quote "It appears the new American Petroleum Institute (API) heavy-duty (HD) engine oil category – identified as PC-10 (now to be called API CJ-4) – will take effect on the intended first license date of October 26, 2006."

Further backed up by this line from your link: "The new formulation meets all of the specification criteria for the new API CJ-4 service category for diesel motor oil"...and "In addition Shell ROTELLA® T motor oil has gained Cummins CES 20081, Mack EO-O Premium Plus 2007 and Volvo VDS-4 approvals."

Certainly sounds to me like they are looking for a cleaner BIG DIESEL TRUCK OIL...which they should. I used to be a truck driver and they've got to pollute as much as any 100 cars I would think.

There will also be a continueing reduction of sulfur in diesel fuel which will also help in reduction of air pollution. I think companies that market diesel fuel additives will see some growth in the sales of their products as truckers may wish to add in some of the fuel lubricity that will be removed with the new fuel.

It sounds like you might be using Mobil 1 15W50 car oil. In the engine, transmission or primary? You may or may not know that there was a recent change in Mobil 1 15W50 from API SL to the current API SM with reductions in wear protective metals for EPA concerns. I think if you check with Mobil and Harley, they may not approve API SM oils for motorcycle use. If you like Mobil 1 products, I recommend using Mobil 1 20W50 motorcycle oil. It was formulated and tested in motorcycles and has a very different formula from the 15W50 car oil evidenced by the data sheets posted at www.Mobil1.com and virgin oil tests at www.bobistheoilguy.com.

What did I do wrong?

I did a search for OIL and got the message no resuilts. So what did I not do right. What I was looking for was: If it's never too early to use Synthetic Oil, when is it too late? ie; Can iIchange from petroleum based to a synthetic at 16K on an 11 year old XLH 883? In PHX I want something that can take the 120 degrees F ambient. I have a stage 1 oil cooler but question how effective it is in the summer.

Sorry to "rehash", but please gimmie a break. I'm a New Old Guy.

Thanks!

Go here…http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

There is more information about oil then you can shake a stick at.

Thanks K.B. Being in the Fluid Power Filtration business for 40+ years I'm pretty familiar with oils, but am not a tribilogist. I looked at the site and followed the link to all the info on oil, but it doesn't answer my question.

Let me please reframe how I ask. I'm looking for someone who has practical experience on the subject: Has anyone experienced any problems changing form a fosil-based petrochemical lubrication to a synthetic oil in an engine with 16,000 miles. OR, has anybody done it successfully?

Thanks again in advance for any help offered.

I have changed over to synthetic on many of my own bikes. My 2KRK was switched at about 15k, the FXR was switched at somewhere North of 30k. I switched to synthetic on every vehicle I have owned in the last ten years.

No drips, no runs and OMG! no bearing skate!

There are many, many, many studies, tests, articles etc regarding synthetic oils.

Oils are rated by standards. Weights, grades, intended use etc. If synthetic oil had any bad manners i.e. causing leaks, skating on bearings, coking up etc, etc, why has there never been an investigation for false advertising by the FTC????? they went after Prolong, Slick 50, Split-Fire etc so why no cases against synthetic manufacturers?

HRK, I need a brew, your turn....

Thanks CD.. The reason I asked was becauseI have spent my entire working life (after my USCG tour of duty) in the Fluid Power Industry which includes pneumatics.

On a couple of occassions I know about, old reciprocating air compressors were switched from petroleum based fluids to synthetic. The synthetic fluid appeared to have more of a detergent action and cleaned the carbon so good that top end rebuilds were required shortly thereafter.

Unless I'm mistaken, thet's one of the advantages of synthetics. Run cleaner without forming carbon, better heat dissipation, and better filterability without removing additives like some petroleum based fluids do if water ever gets into the system. The additive molecules are attracted to the water molecules and form larger particles that are filtered out. But them again I'm used to working with Beta 3 =/> 200 (c) and what's the typical Harley filter media rated at? Beta 40 = 75?

Thanks again for your input. I'll be doing the switch real soon. Any problems if I crank the engine over just a couple of times after draining to get as much as I can out of the oil pump, any internal porting, etc?

I don't recomend turning an engine over with out oil, Amsoil, bardol, castroil, etc. carry a flushing oil all of which I've never used, leaving the plug out and polishing some chrome for a while will let most drain out, then install the syn of choice and go like an sob. Although my own opinion of switching to syn in an eng I waited until 1000 for first change then 2000 for switch over, switching over to soon to a syn oil will prolong your rings and valves to seat, in which case you will prolong your power gain, fuel milage increase, and throttle response. It's not bad for it, it just prolongs it.

Thanks IronHorse. Coincidently I just got a Harley E-Ad for their great new filter.

"The technologically advanced synthetic filter media provides nominal 5 micron (1 micron = .001mm) filtration which retains dust, soot and other solid matter with low internal pressure drop". (I would add that 1 micron =.00004")

Interestingly, there is NO standard for "nominal" ratings. For example, Beta 5 = 2 could be reported as "nominal" (50 percent efficient at particles =/> 5 micron. The formula to convert back to efficiency is:

Beta - 1
-------- X 100 = Efficiency.
Beta

There also is no "standard" for the term "absolute", but it is now generally accepted that Beta x (x = particle size in microns) of 200 or greater is "absolute". So if you had a filter with a Beta 5 =/> 200 it would be (200-1 = 199/200 X 100 = 99.5) percent efficient on particles 5 micron and larger.

Since most fine filters follow the same general curve as far as micron /efficiency, a "nominal" 5 if it's Beta 5 = 2 probably is pretty close to a Beta 40 = 200, or 40 micron "absolute"

Harley should be more specific than using the term "5 micron nominal". That is very misleading and without knowing the actual Beta Ratio means absolutely (no pun intended) NOTHING! Besides, if they had a 5 micron "absolute" filter you would be changing it every 200 miles or less. Beta Rating, DHC (Dirt Holding Capacity) and CLEAN element pressure drop (Delta P) help determine the life of a filter. The lower visability level of the human eye is 40 micron, so if you can see "the dirt" it's at least 40 micron in size. (ISO 4406-1999 (c) For those of you with hair, your hair is about 70 microns in diameter, and a grain of salt is 100 microns.

I just may call them (they won't accept e-mails) and ask them what they are talking about since it really doesn't mean squat. Anyone can call anything they want a "nominal rating"!

Sorry to get off track, but this sort of thing pushes some buttons with me.

aaarrrgghhhh - Now it's time for me to have brew! (Wonder if it will be cold-filtered, and if so what the micron rating is)?

See Polls

See new poll question on oil!

AZ,
Your awesome. You are definitely a numbers guy. Give me data.... more data please

I remember overhearing a conversation in a stealership a few years ago that the twin cams came out with a different oil filter from the EVO's and that if you used the twin cam filter in an EVO you would not flow thru the filter right and you could damage the engine.

I never knew why. I would assume the if there is a new filter it would be a lower micron rating (or higher absolute rating or both ). Would that mean the twin cams have a different way of scavenging the oil out of the crankcase?

Anyone know?

You mean crank position sensor....If it was the neutral switch....the would be one hot filter.