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Performance question

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by dmassey, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    If I was lookin at a upgrade, the 1st thing I would look at is a tuner and cam.
    You will git more from a cam than anything that you do.
  2. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Does upshifting and down shifting at the speeds that are recommended in the owners manual hit around the 2K RPM mark?
    Danny
  3. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    You shgould always keep yer rpms above 2000 when riding the bike.

    We put a set of Woods 44 magnum cams in my buddys stock 08 Electra glide.
    He came back with a possum grin on his face.
    He said when he hit 2400 rpm the cams started pulling, when he hit 3000 rpm's the bike wound up real fast to 5000 rpm. He had to be ready to shift real fast. The bike would be on 80 in 3rd gear before he would know it.
    I will ride the bike later on, and chucktx probaly will also so we can see what hes sayin.

    But where he said he would be sittin behind a car and pull out to pass and when he hit around 80 or so he would run out of power.
    That problem is gone.
    The bike will hit 100 before he knows what happened. It sounds real mean with the stock mufflers. The decmel level raised with the cams. you can definately tell he has them in there.

    We have stage II heads from R&R , pistons and cylinders.
    I will probaly git his some Supertrapp slip in pipes and a Power Commander V is Thundermax don't release their new unit.
    He won't be able to wipe the grin off then for sure.:D
  4. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Well, I had the oil changed from dino to synthetic and gave it a little ride and so far here are the results. Finding neutral is still the same, difficult. I'm having my dealership investigate. The change did in fact make the sound a bit louder and a slightly higher pitch. Now I really need the Quiet Baffles put on to compensate a bit for the increase in volume.
  5. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    It will get better. Don't know why it would be louder though.
  6. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    the manual gives you a starting point i believe. each bike will be different. start with the 2k and if it doesnt suit you, go up. you shouldnt lug the engine and running under 2k is starting to lug it in the upper gears. 1st and 2nd not so much, but 3-4-5-6...yes. hope this helps a bit.........:)
  7. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    I know intellectually that the synthetics will be better for the bike, but as far as the experience of riding it, I feel I've lost something. The sound went from boom, boom, boom to bah, bah, bah, bah and is definitely louder.

    The Harley service guy warned me and I didn't believe him. I was wrong and he was right. Sometimes Harley Davidson does things out of self interest and sometimes it's just a very experienced rider giving you the lowdown. It's not easy to know the difference for someone relatively new to this.

    If I could wave a magic wand, I'd have to say I'd go back to dino, if only for the pleasant vibe the sound used to give me. I feel like it went from a heavy weight to a noisy chopper sound.
  8. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    Were the clutch & primary chain adjusted?

    What weight engine oil, primary fluid, trans fluid?

    Ain't no magic to it - when you're dealing with mechanical things, there's ALWAYS a reason for the results.
  9. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Hi Art, I used the weights you recommended, all Redline for V-Twin in the primary and transmission, 20w50 in the engine.

    Clutch was adjusted three times so far, and no change to neutral. Primary chain not adjusted yet, they're going to have a look see this week.

    As for the change in sound, I figure the type of liquid in an enclosure affects the sound it creates. Change the liquid, and it changes the sound. Despite the 20W50 weight, synthetic oil must be different in the way sound travels through it than fossil fuel.

    I'm bummed..
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  10. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I have never in any bike I've had, noticed any difference in sound by merely switching from Dino oil to synthetic and this is the first time I've ever even heard of someone saying that. You put the right oils in the bike and your bike will benefit from it in the long run. Redline is a proven oil to improve in all areas of the bike especially for wear over Dino oil. Your bike will improve and the Synthetic will greatly help the bike. Harley didn't just start selling their brand of synthetic oil just because customers were demanding it but because they found that using a synthetic improves the life of the components.
    Hellboy, how many miles do you have on your bike?
  11. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    4,200. I bought it from an acquaintance/friend at 3,250.
  12. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    There's your answer - primary chain out of adjustment. Makes no sense to keep adjusting the clutch & not the primary chain @ all - which is actually easier & takes less time.

    The formulations are quite different & I have have noticed a slight change in valvetrain sounds (straight weight conventional muffles them more), but nothing major & certainly not exhaust note or overall engine sound. Something else is causing the sound changes you describe & due to my above comment about clutch/primary, I wouldn't go back to that dealer.
  13. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Since I'm a HOG member at that dealership and am treated well by all, I try to give them some business if I can. If they don't gouge, I'm OK with that. If they turn a job I could do in 40 minutes into an hour's pay, instead of 1/2 hr charge, I won't go back soon. We'll see how that goes.

    I'll call the chief mechanic who has always been straight up and stepped in when something wasn't going right and mention the waste of time adjusting the clutch when it's the shifting/primary area that needs checking into.
  14. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well that's all interesting.

    1) finding N problems is almost always an overtight primary chain, you have an automatic tensioner in that bike, so maybe it snapped up too high it should never need adjusting.
    2) Clutch adjusting is 10% of the problem if at all.
    3) More deeper exhaust noise with synthetic? Not saying its not louder but it's not because of Synthetic oil, remember that oil changes nothing but the total amount of protection to the moving parts it lubes better and stays cleaner longer and can work to it's efficient level longer.

    You can change back next oil change, 5K later, you're back to dyno.

    Hurts nothing, on the trans keep the Heavy shockproof in, it will help over time but the primary still needs to be correct. Unless you have a tranny problem.
  15. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Thanks HRK, that'll help me when I speak with the service guys at HD later today.
  16. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Got another question having to do with performance so I tought rather than starting a whole new thread, I'd tack on to this one. I just got back from a business trip to Vegas and met a H-D rider out there close to the H-D Cafe (a real neat place). He has an 06 Heritage with a SERT, D&D 2 into 1 pipes and I didn't ask what kind of breather although it's probaly a Arlan Ness or H-D SE stage 1. Anyhow, he is really pleased with the performance and the bike has a GREAT sound! I failed to asked him where he got the D&D pipes. Anyone heard of them and where they are and the cost? He may well be reading this for all I know. He said he was getting around 45 MPG around town, which would be great for Vegas raffic, and better than 50 on the road plus all the power he could use. Any body had experience with this combo? Thanks for the help.
    Danny
  17. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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  18. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    If you git the D&D exhaust git the quiet baffle, they perform better.
    Also git you some ear plugs, the pipes are LOUD !

    That's what made me git the SuperTrapp SuperMeg 2in1 pipes. they perform as good as the D&D and ain't as LOUD !!! Trust me.

    I like the Thundermax with Auto tune better than the sert.
    They said a week ago that on the 08 TBW bikes they are suppose to release the TM for the new bikes by the end of May .

    Guess we will have to sit back and see if that really happens.
  19. dmassey

    dmassey Active Member

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    Thanks for the info on the D&D, etc. Finally took the bike in last weekend for the 1K checkup. I had already done the liquids and filter. They put in new plugs, adjusted the clutch, tightened some nuts and bolts and greased the steering bearings. Plus I guess they did some other things too. Then after they fininshed all this, they gave the bike a road test and a wash job. The clutch adjustment changed the feel a bit. It doesn't engage a quickly as it did new so I'm adjusting to that. My wife and I went for a ride today and man is that Harley limbering up now. If you want to get an idea of the road, get a state map (or similar) of Tennessee and locate Bristol in upper east TN. Then find Gate City about 20-25 miles to the west. In between those two there is state highway 58 - nice and curvey through the low mountains. What a GREAT ride. The red buds are in full bloom and beautiful. And the rumbel of the bike just made it more enjoyable. We stopped at a store in Hiltons, VA close to what is called the Carter Fold where June Carter Cash was born and raised. Sat and talked for a spell with a guy that saw Johnny Cash's last performance at the Fold. Johnny was in a wheelchair. Johnny and June built a nice summer home there and came up fairly often. Anyhow the weather is breaking for he better here in East TN. Had a beautiful day today - around 73 degrees. Supposed to rain tomorrow but that's okay cause it's almost garden time. You all have a great Sunday and ride safe.
    Danny
  20. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Be glad it don't slip into neutral real easy, when yer riding it will go from 1st to 2nd without slippin intp neutral real easy.

    How many miles do you have on the bike ?

    Also when yer trying to find neutral try lettin out some on the clutch a little.

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