1. Welcome to Bike Talk, a forum for all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts. If you are new to Bike Talk, be sure to register for free and join the conversation.

    There's always someone around willing to help out with questions or give a friendly wave back. All Harley and metric riders are welcome.

Power Commander with Auto Tune

Discussion in 'EFI Maps and Tuners' started by Hdtractor1, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Minnesota

    No, but I have ridden them. They are nice, but I like simplicity. Ever ride a water injected bike?
  2. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    Got a Jet Ski, does that count.

    And if you like simplicity guess yer still driving a truck with a carbuerator.
    See how many folks you know that has a truck with a carbuerator.

    And a fuel injected bike with a Thundermax A/T is simplicity. The Thundermax does everything for you. But you can change things on it to yer likin too.

    And YES Redneck Johnny we are still talkin about the Power Commander and the Thundermax.

    Git with the Program dude......:rant:
  3. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Minnesota
    :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,268
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Well even if you have a simple carb it's not so simple
    you have to get the jets correct, all three and the pump assist
    spray pattern correct, then lets add in timing.

    You still need an ignition to fire the plugs...

    So you have two devices doing two things, whereas on an EFI bike it's one device doing two(multiple) things, I think its more state of mind than anything else, EFI is inherently better overall, more precise fuel delivery and that allows more efficiency and ultimately more power...

    Plus you don't smell like gas when you change the EFI fuel points LOL
  5. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    Well Said Hotroadking.........

    Wished I could rap like that......:cool:
  6. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Am I am not talking about a jet ski. :D I am talking about water/methanol injection. :cool:
  7. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    And you can ride this on the road at 70 mph or so and it sounds like a Harley and turns the Chic's heads ?
    That's what yer trying to say.....:gah:
  8. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Minnesota
  9. Hdtractor1

    Hdtractor1 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    LOL!!!!!:wtf: Cardboard!!!!!
  10. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    The way I think and the way I talk are 2 different things.
    What I might want to say probaly ain't gonna come out the same.
    You'd probaly have to know me to understand.

    Hello ,,,,,
  11. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    9,926
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Alvin TX
    I run the PC 3 on my 03 Eglide & never had any trouble out of it , it is a PITA when I change pipes or do any other work & have to go get it dynoed ,I called the people at TM & he aid about $1100 for a tm for my bike :eek: I eamiled PC about the pc5 & they said they don't have them But they have heard of some modafieing the one for the softails to fit & work :eek::eek:,I talked to one of the guys from Speed's performance plus , they had a truck at the rally & told them what PC said he told me they have them , I 'am thinking I have to get my ride dynoed after putting the new cams in ,but the guys at PC said I don't need to , I do like the EFI delfi ,but if my ride had a card I would have it running good & right now & for a lot less money :angry:
  12. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,268
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Get in touch with Jamie at fuelmoto.com about anything PC,
    he will help you out... Might even have a map.

    I'd wait on the new Powervision... before changing anything.
  13. Hdtractor1

    Hdtractor1 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    I Put the PC5 on the geezer and runs great compared to the V&H Fuel pak. Was going to put auto tune on it but Jamie said try with out Auto tune 1st. Jamie says auto tune is needed if you do more than just a stage 1 . It runs great with map Jamie put in at shipment. Cost is way better than an overpriced thunder max....TM support is not so hot either from all the posts and talk from others. Jamie at Fuel Moto is excellent!!
  14. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    A Power Commander is a piggy back unit.
    The Vance and hines is a power back unit.
    Vance and hines told me on the phone not to use their unit if you do anything other than the pipes and air breather.

    The thundermax is a unit that replaces the ECM. No piggy back.
    And it don't have the problems with water shorting it out like the PC does.

    Don't know how you can compare it to a piggy back unit.
    There's no auto tune unit on the market that can compare to the Thundermax and how easy it is to operate.

    And a cheap tuner can cost you a motor on a motorcycle.
    The tune on yer bike is pretty important .
  15. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,268
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    Mouseville USA
    Tmax works, but it has it's issues as well

    PC have been out for years, they work well, and JMO a dyno tune
    will make it even better than a canned map, but Fuelmoto's maps
    seem to be very close, they do a lot of dyno runs and get maps
    themselves vs off the internet from end users.
  16. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    Had a friend that was havin a issue he couldn't solve. He took his bike to a Bike show where Tm was and they fixed the problem for him and showed him how to fix what he was doing wrong.

    I've seen the Power Commanders not make a good connetion and cause problems. Like just last week.
  17. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    18,516
    Likes Received:
    248
    Location:
    Oregon
    I like my EFI Super tuner SE pro. I have seen others with the power commander and with the V&H system but until they dyno it, it never seems to run real well. A friend with the fuel pak brags how much money he saved over me and others with the power commander and brags how great him mileage is, almost 10 miles per gallon better than me and I'm getting average 48 MPG. I looked at his exhaust, its turning gold the ends are a white color and have told him he is probably running to lean. Can't get it through to him cause he owns a auto repair shop and he knows best.
    His problem then but to bad.
    I still like the HD tuner and have always done a dyno on the bike when a considerable change was made.
  18. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    11,459
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Lake Livingston, Tx.
    On my last 96cu motor. I had a builder to build it for me. The builder builds drag race bikes and other bikes too. It was a mild 103. Head work, pistons and bored jugs. 37 andrews cams.
    I watched him build the whole motor.
    When he got the motor dun he put a Thundermax A/T on it. I took it out and was blown away at how much power and how fast it would run.
    I was gittin better fuel milage with a 103 than a 96cu motor, with a SE high flow air kit, and D&D fatcat pipes and the SE race tuner and 4 hours of dyno time.
    I really liked the Thundermax, it would be on my bike now, if they hadn't taken 3 yrs to git it perfected for the TBW unit.
    And I still might take the PCV off and put it on.:rant:
  19. Hdtractor1

    Hdtractor1 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    I had a V&H fuel pak on 2008 Streetglide with the V&H Long shot pipes and no Dyno.It ran like a scared rabbit!!!! Had HD Stage 1 air filter on it.

    Put the exact same new pipes and fuel=pak and Stage 1 for the 2010 Geezer Glide and it ran horrible!!!! I was told the 2010 model has real small 01 sensors and HD changed the sensors due to the CATHLETIC CONVERTERS. HD never told us about them on 2010 Touring models!!! In 2009 it was California only but in 2010 it was all touring modles got the converters. Friend I ride with bought an 09 geezer same summer I got 2010 with V&H set up like mine and has no issues what so ever and runs very well and good sound with V&H long shots ,V&H Fuel-pak on his.

    Vance & Hines fuel pak never got along with change after removal of the converter with true dules on the 2010 Geezer. The 2010 even had different sound than the 09 set up.The fuel-pak is different from 09 to 10 as well.

    The PCV requires disconnecting the 01 sensors on 2010 if you do not use the auto-tune. If you want the auto-tune and using V&H long shot duels you must drill out the Bung holes on the pipes and have the PCV Auto sensors tac welded to the bung holes. Jamie was telling me that if your only running pipes and filter change you really do not need Auto tune. The 2010 runs way better with the PCV !!! Think i will have bike on dyno next service at stealer I'm so happy with it.

    So that is the scoop on the 2010 with V&H Long Shots on the Touring Models. The Thundermax may be a better route for beyond Stage1 with V&H long shots, but PCV is way Cheaper than TM for what I wanted to accomplish.
    Been running the PCV from middle of last Summer with no Problems and "greased" the Piggy back connection which connects nice on the 2010 model and lays flat under seat not on the side as before 2010 models.

    Hope that helps any one with a 2010 Touring model with V&H Long Shot true duels. If I had known the 2010 model had Converters I would have bought the 09 for a Grand cheaper than the 2010 and the 09 was right beside the 2010 when I made the Dumb mistake!!!!!
  20. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned A-Hole

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    This facet has always been the deal-breaker for me. I simply do not know much about EFI and the CPU electronics in modern era motorcycles.

    This also applies to making choices in ancillary equipment, programs and fluids. For Betty I had a completely rebuilt engine. It made sense to buy a super-tuner, buy dyno time and use synth.

    The little Sportster is just a glorified scooter. Not much was modified. After discussing these issues with my wrench--and figuring out just how good the generic MoCo download was--I decided not to purchase the tuner or bother with dyno time. (If I have flat spots or other issues I can always upgrade. My mechanic also took the Sportster out for a thorough test ride.)

    But how are guys like the OP and "carburetor era" bikers like myself supposed to even do research when we do not grasp the basics of newer technology? I simply voted with my wallet. I did not wish to scatter an expensive engine or burn a hole in a piston.

    That might seem to be a poor decision, but I do not own modern diagnostic tools, my shop has a dyno and my bigger bike is quite an investment. I made the best decision I could.

Share This Page