Pythons on A Softail-- Loud and Clear?

The "Louder & Prouder" setup

Painter,

Glad to read that you’ve decided to go with the “L&P” setup.

I’ve heard that the V&H pro pipe is a good pipe, and I considered it for my bike, but as you mentioned, it tends to clash a bit with the “Heritage” look. But then again, anything is better looking (and sounding) than those ugly bulbous stock pipes (IMHO of course).

As far as installation, my experience was thus: Air cleaner was the easiest to install.
I installed the V&H bigshots, not the pro pipe, but they were not much of a problem other than the stupid gasket that kept falling out when I would attempt to bolt the flange to the cylinder. I suppose if I had been smart, I would have used a drop of adhesive to temporarily hold it in place.

ffflhtcui mentioned that his PCIII went in easily, but on my FLSTCI the PCIII was a bit troublesome. It mounts under the seat, and the instructions suggested lowering the fuse box a little to make room for the unit. I screwed around with the fuse box for a bit, then decided to use the “SISK Modified Mounting Method”. My PCIII is not mounted as per the instructions, but it fits fine, and the Dyno guy complimented my “optional” mounting method.

One suggestion: The Ness BS comes with two “Banjo Bolts” that have a hole drilled through the shaft of the bolt which serves as an oil / air passage. On my bike, I noticed that oil had started to weep past the threads and around the bolt heads. Not a significant amount, but I didn’t want any weepage. At the dyno shop, I mentioned the oil weep to the tech, and he suggested that I remove the bolts and put a thin film of Loctite PST 565 (see below) on the bolt threads and o-ring. After doing this I have had no oil weepage. Well worth the cost of a $4.00 tube of Loctite.

I'm assuming you've purchased the service manual?!? It's an extremely helpful tool.
Good luck on the install and let us know how it went.

SISK

Never trade luck for skill


Loctite PST 565 Thread Sealant
6 ml. Tube. Formulated specifically for metal, tapered, pipe thread fittings, PST 565 cures rapidly to provide immediate low pressure sealing. Its controlled lubricity prevents galling, and it protects mated threaded areas from rust and corrosion. 565 can be used on fittings up to 2" (50mm) in diameter and has a temperature range of -65 degrees F to +300 degrees F (-54 degrees C to +149 degrees C). Disassembly possible with hand tools.

SISK:

Thanks for the tip on using Locktite.

Have you been reading the thread here entitled "Power Commander Question"? I have been poking at the PCIII device and its maps. A few guys are saying that the standard maps for a particular set up need further attention. What is your experience here on the performance of the ready-to-go maps? Also, did you download the "Accelerator Pump" upgrade from the Dyno website to use wit hteh usb versions of the PCIII?

My pipes should be here tomorrow. I am quite anxious to go ahead with this project.

Yo, down the road,

Painter

AFNurse:

The PCIII I ordered has the usb port and so does my pc, so maybe I won't have the same problem you are having now. From what I read here, running lean for too long will blue your new pipes in no time.

Sounds like the installation is hardly the problem to worry about. Tuning the PCIII is the key. I have been asking lots of questions about this issue. Please keep us all up on how you deal with this problem.

Yo, down the road,

Painter

PCIII maps & such

Painter,

Yes, I've been following your posts on the "PowerCommander" thread.
I downloaded map m805-126 which seemed to do quite well, and I think I would have left it at that if I hadn't had the "mysterious" decrease in MPG when I got it back from the dealer after my 1000 mile service (see post #12 on this thread).
But, after having the bike dyno'd and tuned in by a great dyno tech, I now highly recommend having your bike dialed in on a dyno by someone that knows what they are doing. I gained 17 hp and 7 lbs tq over a stock FLSTCI after my bike was dyno'd! In a previous post, Rooster mentioned he gained only 5 hp and 3 tq, but based on my experience, I think a good dyno guy can squeeze a bit more out of it.
My stock MPG was 41/ 42, same as yours, and now it is at 40mpg which is just fine for me considering the extra kick my bike now has.

Regarding the "Accelerator pump", I'm not familiar with that. I got the PCIIIr, (non-usb) and I don't recall the AP upgrade being available. I'd say don't worry about that upgrade if you are going to have your bike dyno'd.

AFNurse, I feel your pain regarding the 9 pin PCIII When I got mine, I don't recall that the USB unit was available, and like you, I didn't have a 9 pin serial port on my laptop. I spent the evening running upstairs to my desktop computer (which had a 9 pin port) trying to load the map on that computer, but it didn't ever work. I ended up getting the USB / serial adapter that you are talking about. After that, all went just fine. I got my cable at Radio Shack. I doubt Deutschland has a Radio Haus, but you should be able to find and adapter online. If not, let me know and perhaps I can send my cable on a German vacation.

L & P all the way baby

SISK

What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; if ATC screws up, the pilot dies

Painter,

I just ordered V&H bigshots long/PcIII/Ness big sucker for my 05 FLSTN. They should be here by next weekend....So ill being doing what you are doing this weekend Hope everything goes good for you so you can pass your new Knowledge over to me for next weekend.

One thing I did just learn when placing my order is that there is no maps out yet for the 05 models. They say the 04 ones will work good for now. Anyone know if these maps work well or should I wait for the 05 maps to come out before I put my new parts on?

Simpson Rolled Thunder

Hey Nurse,

How DO those new pipes sound at 2300hrs?

With only a mile long commute at 2300hrs I'll bet they can hear you all the way.

Like Mr. Paint says "Louder & Prouder"

SISK

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session. - Mark Twain 1866

Thanks to good advice in the forum and in this thread, I was able to determine the kind of pipes to replace the stock pipes on my '04 Hertitage Softail. I first thought about Python 3, then weakened to consider the Screamin' Eagles, and finally selected the Vance and Hines Pro Pipe HS. Of course, I had to install the Power Commander III and a Ness Big Sucker breather. I bought all of these parts from Direct Parts, and they arrived on Thursday.

Thursday night I installed the PCIII software on my desktop pc at home. No problem at all. Next, I hooked up the PCIII and powered it up with a 9V battery. I put the correct map for my set up on the PCIIi (M805-147) and I also installed the Accelerator Pump upgrade and mapped it to 90% sensitivity, 40rpm incrematal, and 15% added fuel. The PCIII keeps the map loaded on it even with the 9V removed.

Friday after work I went to my garage and installed the Big Sucker and the PCIII. Removing the stock air cleaner and putting on the Big Sucker took all of 30 minutes. Snap. Easy. The PCIII installation requires taking off the seat, and simply plugging in line with the ECM. Easy. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to place all the new part and wires so that the seat would fit back on with out screwing things up. Total time for PCIII an Big Sucker: 90 minutes taking my time

I reserved all day Saturday to remove the stock pipes and put on the Pro Pipe. I started removing the stock pipes by unscrewing the header flanges, loosening the rider right footboard, and removing the passenger footboard. The stock pipes came off in one junk once I cleared everything out of the way. Taking off the stock pipes took me one hour.

I carefully put the heat shields on the new Pro Pipe. Not much to this part. I took the flanges off the old pipes and put them on the new header along with the circlip from the stock pipes. The circlip is not a standard circlip with holes for the snap ring pliers, but is a band with a piece cut out of it. I used the snap ring pliers to get it off and then on with not much trouble. Putting the new header on the bike took a little wiggling and grunt work, but it fit snuggly enough. I bolted it on the heads loosely.

I tried to follow the installation instructions verbatim, but I had to vary from them on the next part of putting the megaphone muffler on the header. The instructions say to mount the bracket on the bike first, then slip on the muffler. I wasted an hour trying do this. Finally, I mounted the bracket on the muffler then slipped the muffler on the header, and then bolted the bracket to the frame. Voila'. Three hour to put on the Pro Pipe.

I held my breath, sitting on my bike in the noon sun, sweat streaming down my cheeks, grease on my hands. I turn on the ignition. Lights! Yes. But I had to use my key fob to disarm the alarm system that was flashing. I set the run switch, and I hear the fuel pump whining. Good! I push the start button and....


....... VVVVRRRRROOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I COULDN'T BELIVE MY EARS!!! Was this really MY bike sounding all deep baritone and bad as h*ll!? I gave it a little gas.... and......


BLUDA BLUDA BLUDA BLUDA ......... Oh yes... the real deal here!

I drove around the parking lot slowly in first and second gear. No pinging, no popping, no weird noises. No parts falling off. Sounds MUCH louder! Ok........


..... I get out on the road and get up to top gear.... something different, I can feel it even at 30 mph. Down the road to a gas station to top off so I can measure mileage. Then off around the airport on some 55mph stretches. ...

OH MY GOD! Smooth as silk power through all gears. Much less effort and strain than stock. I goose it... d*mn good acceleration.

I don't know how much extra TQ or HP I got today, but SOMETHING is certainly there that was not there before! The sound of the Pro Pipe is awesome: deep throaty baritone note.....


I have arrived!

I'm going out for a spin.... more later....


YO DOWN THE ROAD,

Painter.

Dude, I haven't read anything like that since I quit taking Penthouse back in the 70's.

Congrats!

Bluda Bluda

BLUDA, BLUDA, BLUDA???

Haven't heard that sound description before, if my bike made that sound, I'd think someone stuck a banana up my tailpipes .
BLUDA.... must be the exclusive sound for the V&H Pro pipe.
Or perhaps it's just the artistic side of painters brain that is taking command again now that the technical side has just finished the mechanical work

Good job on the installation Painter, "sounds" like everything went smooth, now we just need pictures.

Enjoy your new found power, but remember to keep the shiney side up

SISK

Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers.

This new Pro Pipe and the PCIII is better than Penthouse.

I got out on the I-294 tollroad and raced up to 80 mph in no time flat. Really quick. From the dead stop at the toll booth with nothing to stop me, I had a quarter mile of pure speed demon thrill to drag race. I wound out each gear to the max, and I was 'outta there- gone"! Where the stock set up had a hard time in second gear, this new set up is a steep straight line upward with NO gaps. Up at 60mph I was being passed by the cars, so on a good straight-away where I could scope for the cops, I let 'er rip wide open full throttle. Whosh! 70, 80, 85,,,, and I backed off with proof enough that this is a brand new day for my BLACK BEAST (nom de bike).

I still think a Dyno session may be worthwhile, but I am SO pleased with the improvements that I wonder why I should spend the money... oh, then I would KNOW the TQ and HP numbers. Braggin' rights?

Yo, down the Road,

Painter

Dyno the Black Beast

Painter,

I know the $$ is hard to part with to pay for a dyno when there are catalogs of bling and other accessories, but if you think your dyno guy is well qualified, I would suggest you get it dyno'd.
Make sure to have him do a run before he makes any changes, that way you will have a before and after comparison. And be sure to get printouts of your charts so you can back up your braggin' rights.
I'll be interested to see how your MPG has changed.

Post some Black Beast photos

SISK

If all else fails, Brush your teeth

Gas Mileage with the Pro Pipe

OK, I put on the Pro Pipe, PCIII, and Big Sucker and took off on two different trips.

First trip was city driving with lots of stops and starts (130 miles of this): 39.6 mpg

Second trip was open highway with very few stops (98 miles of this):
42.1 mpg

Average:
40.8 mpg.

This is 'maybe' 1-2 mpg less than before the new pipes.

I will take some pictures and put them on-line soon. Now, I beg the question: after a dyno session, THEN WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE TO IMPROVE PERFORNANCE SHORT OF CAMS AND NEW CYLINDERS?


Yo, Down the Road,

Painter

Leave the girlfriend at home...........if you've got the nads to.

Sounds like you've got the "bug" now...congrats to you on a job well done. Better start saving up for the heads, big bore, and cams...this "bug" is infectious and like a drug habit requires more...ever more to keep that grin on I think its great you had the nerve to do your own work...everyone should give it a try. The V-Twin engine is really a simple machine at its core. when you tear your top end apart the first time and see how the lifters push the rods which push the rocker arms which push the valves open etc....you realize why they've been such a reliable machine for 100 years...there is just nothing overly complicated about these motors. I too had no experience wrenching on a Harley before I got this one but I've saved literally thousands of dollars on labor and with over 30,000 miles and no mechanical breakdowns or roadside disasters I gotta figure I'm doing something right...which proves anyone with a decent set of tools, patience, and the ability to read can do the same.

SeaHag:

Thanks for the compliment on my 'bravery', but it came at the price of being so nervous at the outset that I thought I was going to puke. I had my brand-new $21K bike sitting before me, and me with a wrench in hand ready to tear it to pieces. Yes indeed brave and bold, but confident.

"NEXT" is certainly on my mind. Cylinders, cams, and what else? Pipes and breather were the simplest first steps, but I am seeking alternatives to the obvious second step of increasing the c.i. directly with larger cylinders.

Perhaps my insuing suggestion requires a new thread: TURBOCHARGING.

My preliminary reading in my new "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" textbook showed me immediately that air-flow through the engine is has a direct mathematical relationship to power (which explains why the pipes and breather make a difference--more air in and out.)

Turbocharging is the concept of increasing the density (mass/volume ratio) of air injected into the engine via a turbine of some sort. I have found some reference that the HD engines can sustain HP increases to the 135 HP and UP range. Note: these are just glimmerings of what I need to know.

I am going to crank up and new thread on TURBOCHARGING and I will keep reading and researching and posting what we all would like to know: HOW TO GET MORE AND MORE TQ AND POWER. I hope all you techno-bikers join in full throttle.

Yo, down the road,

Painter