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Sent email to dealer

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by cowboy, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    They got all kinds of cars and trucks.

    But i seen like a gray Ford or Mercury car today. Looked like a normal car. But it has lights inside.

    The State needs everybodys money
  2. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Yea, I see unmarked cars, pickups and SUVs that have pulled over cars all the time. But they have at least here graduated out of the old LTD :)
  3. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    ya forgot to mention, ya got a 6 gallon tank................about 37 mpg. i hit 40+ with mine....normally 42........unless we cook down the highway heading for the stump!!!!!!!:D
  4. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    And you fail to mention. When we ride, I let you git ahead and I downshift 2 gears and twist the heck out of the throttle. I wind the gears till the rev limiter. Its fun.
    I could git better fuel milage by driving conserative.
    If its about riding a bike and fuel milage totally. Why take the fun out of riding. When the fun stops I will stop riding and find something else to do.

    Don't ride nowhere as conserative as you do.
    I git bored a lot easier than you. That's why I twist the throttle

    And you fail to mention you got a 88cu and I got a 103 cu.
    Now build yer engine and twist yer throttle like me and see what kind of fuel milage you git.

    Like somebody trying to say, I got a 95cu and it will run with a 110cu.
    A build 95cu up against a stock 110cu. It don't compare.
    Hello.
  5. Tomflhrci98

    Tomflhrci98 Active Member

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    Cowboy, I don't know if you had a chance to look at this or not. I started out talking kind of negative about the whole switch cause it cost me more than people said it would, but in the end it was the best thing I ever did for this bike.

    You should have a much easier time with your tank then I did. I think yours has removable lines. And once you remove the pump and filter you will get almost a half gallon more capacity. With the carb I get 44 miles a gallon and with the added capacity I can go 190 to 200 miles before I need to fill up - before I was looking around for a gas station when it hit 130.

    Between putting on the carb and adding the DynaTec Singlefire ignition this bike has never run better. And it starts with just a tap on the starter button. You'll also notice a very different exhaust note when your done. I was shocked when I heard it run with the carb - I don't know why, but it is louder and lower tone. It seemed to chirp like a bird with the EFI.

    Some guys don't remove the ECU, they use it for the ignition. You can do this to save money. I didn't want to do this and found it started and idled much better with the singlefire. DynaTech with coil was about $250 online.

    Now I don't worry about temperature sensors, throttle sensors, pressure regulators, injectors, fuel pumps, fuel relay, cam and crank sensors, baro sensors, waiting for the engine light to go off before I start,......blah blah blah blah...:banghead:
  6. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank's for your input Tom that's what I'am looking for out of mine , I gave the EFI a chance for four years now & I'am tried of throwing money at my bike :banghead:, Now in the future if they come up with a efi set up that anyone can work on then & only then will I go back to it :D
  7. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    YOu are talkin about something for less than 600.00
  8. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    What's under $600 ?
  9. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    The difference in exhaust tone is lost like coming from the ignition. I was told that I would notice the difference of tone coming from a dual fire to a single fire. I thought that the guy what full of crap. He wasn't. Huge difference in sound. :D
  10. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Don't understand why everybody with the older bikes keeps lookin at the Thunde-Max for the new bikes that has Throttle by wire. The Throttle by Wire model is higher than the non throttle by wire models.
    The Throttle by wire model Thundermax's will not fit the non throttle by wire models. Do why look at the wrong model.
    The prices went up on the TBW models cause of the technology of Throttle by Wire drive bikes and the ABS brakes.
    This took a little over 3 yrs to perfect.
    And since I've had TBW for since it 1st come out in 07 on the 08 bikes.
    I really see how its easier than cables to do things with.

    If I can go onto eastern performance and git a TBW TM with Auto Tune for 799.00
    YOu know the one that is not for Throttle by wire is cheaper.
    Bungs are like 8.00 each if I remember correctly.

    This is one of the big problems with EFI.
    Everybody wants to go out and buy a VAnce and Hines Fuel Pack or something like that.
    They are cheap. But they are not a tuner. They alter the AFR's so you don't burn a hole in yer piston from the bike being lean.
    Or we git a Power Commander for a little more and don't have it dynoed.
    But if we had of done things right from the start and put the money we have wasted on a good tuner like the thundermax. And did a good installation.
    The unit would tune itself.

    But no we buy a couple cheap tuners and then try something else to correct what we've already wasted money on.

    If you don't have the money or git tired of going to the dealer for tunes.
    The Thundermax is a great tuner for EFI bikes.

    I've riddin bikes since 64. Done the carbuerator during their time.
    Ain't going back,
    YOu can't buy a boat motor with a carb anymore., how long has it been since you have been able to buy a car with a carb.
    Carbs don't meet emmissions. That's why they quit making them.
    They don't atomize fuel efficiently as TB and fuel injection does.

    And being scared of Technology is gonna leave you behind.
    Times has changed and you have to change with the times.

    Git off the computer and go back to pencil and paper if you don't like how the times has changed.
  11. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Cowboy, I was looking through my '03 Parts Catalog and to me it looks like the main wiring harnesses for carbed and fuelies are the same...(FLHT harness is the same number as for FLHTCI and the other deckers)as far as the wiring part of it it only looks like you'd have to unplug the EFI harness and remove then plug in the ignition harness(32435-02) get an ignition module and coil and you're half way there...then you'd have to work on the fuel delivery...so going from Delphi injection to carb may not be as involved as going from MM injection to carb
    Then welcome back to the Stone Ages...take your pencil and paper and figure out the savings:roflmao:
  12. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    lucifer thanks for the info , That helps a lot , Haven't had time to look in my 03 parts book or service manual :banghead:But there here :D as for the paper& pencle it's right here on my desk next to me :D it taks a brain to work this hard with paper & pencle , for this high teck stuff it taks a memerie (sp) I do most of my math on paper not on a claculater I use my I phone for other the phones calls ,I guess I like the stone age it all works for me & yes cardboard some things do need to be updated buy not all things , there are flaws in all thinks old & new :D thats just the way it is :eek:
  13. Tomflhrci98

    Tomflhrci98 Active Member

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    Cardboard, Stop beating around the bush - tell us how you really feel.:D

    I do my rithmatic with one of these...

    Attached Files:

  14. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Cardboard, I was always interested in a self tuning tuner and thought the Power Commander 5 did that. I'm not sure. The Thundermax you speak of seems interesting, Does it work with Vance & Hines pipes or is the Power Commander 5 a better choice, just curious.
  15. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Vance and Hines has a real basic simple system, no dyno required.
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Powercommander 5 only tunes with the Auto Tune module attached.
    They are now getting out the Powercommander Vision which is very kool
    self tunes, updates ECM. Has screen for tuning runs that mounts to bars..

    Zippers T-Max auto tunes constantly, you replace sensors with broad band
    zippers sensors and replace the stock ECM with Zippers It's a full replacement
    system and as of now, old school.

    REV Performance has a new Tuner out that does what the Tmax does, only you
    keep your stock ECM, it is an add on module and its getting great reviews. You change over to broad band sensors (Bosch LSU4) send your ECM to them, they set the base
    map up, make some changes to allow the ECM to run broad bands, and then you run the bike with their module strapped on. Tunes constantly

    Lastly TTS mastertune - lets you have access to the ECM, you can load maps, go on tuning runs, update data, make timing changes etc it's a bit more user work but you can take it to a dyno operator if you can't tune out a problem (700 lift cams with high reversion pipes) and get it dialed in.

    There is talk about sensor life, the LSU4 supposedly has a short life, max of 30K but in real life there are a lot of failures with the broad band sensors (Zippers, REV Perf) the switching sensors in the stock HD last longer, and the reason HD moved them away from the heads down the headers is to increase life and service.

    Over Rich maps, oil leaking past valves, heat, vibration all contribute to sensor life.
    also position of sensor (angle) is important.

    Some feel the broad bands give a lot of false readings at the extremes
    causing the ECM to falsely make changes. The RevPerf system has
    taken that into consideration..

    If making up a new EFI bike
    and you don't want to use a tuner
    then I'd opt to go REV Perf or ZIppers....
  17. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate technology and all of the conveniences, but how can all of these steps that HRK mentioned be "more efficient"? Just read the detail and there is no way that one can argue that EFI is better than a simple carb. :witsend::banghead:

    BtW, what are the complaints with the stock HD units in the first place? By reading numerous posts, it sounds like that the aftermarket systems suck just as bad as the HD ones. :roflmao:

    Aren't EFI systems basic function to supply fuel to the engine and compensate the air fuel mixture according to need? I did not say to "want", I said need. Instead of going through all of the hassle of changing the ECM and all of the other crap, why not change injector size instead of all the other shiit? Changing injector size should not really require an ECM change????
  18. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    The Vance and Hines Fuel Pack is not a tuner. It just makes the bike run a little richer. You can't tune with it.
    And all Vance and Hines, I you do anything other than pipes and a air box they tell you . Do not use this device on yer bike.
  19. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Comon Johnny.:D

    Harley Davidson bikes meet EPA emmissions. The bikes have the timin advance and the fuel lean. That's why they git so hot.
    And the newer bikes have catalyst converters in them.

    1st thing to do if you want to do it right.
    Git a TM A/T
    You will either have to drill some holes in yer pipes on the older bikes and have bungs in it or git some pipes like the 09 pipes that have the larger 02 sensor holes.
    On the 2010 and newer you need to replace the header pipe with a 09 header pipe to git rid of the catalyst comverter .
    Now you can install the TM, Then you can do a high flow air kit.
    Anything you do from now forward the Tm will cover yer changeds.

    Just a TM by itself will add more fuel and make yer bike run cooler and better.



    With the REV performance tuner you have to send them yer ecm and pay to have it reprogrammed. YOu have more down time.
    The Vison unit that fuel motor was talkin about hasn't even been released yet.

    Unless you have somebody to dyno yer bike with the TTS mastertune yer not gonna be able to tune with it good.

    You can't see a dyno pull as good and can't control what it does under WOT or the heat that happens when running it.

    The simplest thing to do, and yes it is gonna cost a little more.
    Is to start on the top with the TM and go forward from there.

    If you don't have the money to do things to yer bike, Leave it in the garage.....:cussing:
    Personally I don't know anybody that has a bike that don't do things to it.:rolleyes:
  20. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Here is what a builder and dyno man said about self tuning the TTS Mastertune.

    this is an example of extended data collection i referred to. sounds like you hve a good handle on smart tune. two things to point out (there are more, but i dont type well),
    1. without comparing power between before and after adjustment, you dont know how the adjustment affected efficiency.
    2. your adjustments are only good for closed loop-----which you only see in real world at low throttle/low load. the rest of the cells you extrapolate which means about 90 percent of th cells are not tuned.

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