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Sent email to dealer

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by cowboy, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Here is what he replied to on a fuel pack


    Is manipulatin' fuel not a form of tuning? I understand it's not fine tuning. I stated that in another post. But the FuelPak is a product that tells the ECM to change the stock tune that came on the bike. All those things have been mentioned that you say need to be changed to tune a bike very well could be changed. We just don't know by how much, because V&H won't tell us what each of the values changes and by how much it changes with each increase or decrease in numbers. It doesn't appear that a dyno guy can fine it anymore than V&H has already built into the FuelPak. It looks like the FuelPak has a finite amount of tuning available to it. So you have to tune it with the available options. You cannot dive in with an infinite number of tuning options like you can with other products that allow manipulation of every aspect. The FuelPak seems to be a tuner for the non-dyno guy that wants somethin' quick, cheap, and easy to put on his bike to make it run good enough to not blow the bike up after he changes his exhaust and air cleaner.

    I do believe there's a product out there that simply just dumps more fuel in the bike. I think that's all the XiED does. I believe it just reads the O2 sensors and dumps fuel accordingly to optimize an air/fuel ratio.

    I don't know for sure, but I think the FuelPak does more than that.

    In my opinion, BOTH of those product tune the bike to some extent to allow it to run better than without the product. However, neither allows for fine tuning to allow the bike to run at its best performance level. They seem to be the simplest of tuners, and that is reflected in the amount of performance a person is able to get out of a bike with them.
  2. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    you cannot tune with a fuelpak.

    you can only tune any bike with any real tuner by using the dyno or extended data logging. the dyno makes shorter work and allows more accuracy. first step to tuning is timing, which can only be done on a dyno or many,many street runs with a good data logger like twins scan 2 plus.and you will miss areas of load with the latter option. you also cant control temperature while on the street, so dyno is absolute.

    pc is limited in ability compared to the sert/sest/sestp/mastertune/directlink/thundermax tuners.

    with any real tuner, base map is critical as that is what controls injector timing based on cam selection. so the tmax rules in this area.

    biggest problem when using tmax is exhaust and cam selection. autotune will not work/will not work well with high reversion which occurs with ****ty pipes. true duals fall in this category. reversion running backwards up the pipes fools the 02 sensors AS OCCURS WITH ANY TUNER! thats why dyno print outs may show a hilly or lean/rich look to the afr graph. when a good dyno guy can get around it because of experience, many (most) dyno guys just tune for a straightline afr like 13:2 to 1, which usually results in a ****ty tune!

    yep, i always suggest buying wichever product the tuning guy is best with. but------if trusting someone to be able to tune correctly and prevent your bike from melting down-----shouldnt he be versatile?
  3. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe so CB but I know a lot of guys using the fuelpak and like it. Its a very basic simple system and yes it adjusts fuel only but then thats all some want.
  4. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Got friends with them.
    I tried a Arlen Ness Big Shot, does more than a Fuel pack.
    Tore the bike down and it showed what the cheap tuner did for the heads and top of the pistons.
    Carbon buildup, and looked like tide on everything.

    Normally a startin place.
    But it don't tune all way across the board.
    Why not start on top with the best and not have to worry about anything in the future.
  5. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    That's why I have the newest Race Tuner, works good. :)
  6. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    Other than it being winter, my bike is never in the garage unless it is time for me to sleep. It is that way because I have listened to people that know what they are doing. With all due respect CB, it just doesn't sound like that the people that are working on your bike know what they are doing. It sounds like they are pulling you in every direction just to get you to spend some money. YOu were talking about a different engine. What happened to that?

    I can appreciate wanting to make the bike better, but does that mean that the person who spends the most on their bike has the best running bike?? How much have you thrown at your bike in just repairs in the last year?? Cowboy has said many times that he does not have the money, I guess like you do, to keep throwing at his bike. He has come to the conclusion that a carb is a better way for HIM!! Be happy for him that he has found a way to stay in the saddle. I have this nagging feeling that once Cowboy gets his project done, that, yes, it is possible that he will be working bugs out for a little while, but once he gets those worked out, I bet we hear nothing but how much HE LOVES it, and that is all that matters.
  7. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmmmmm

    He had the money for a cam conversion plate and a cam.
    And he was lookin at the wrong tuner.
    If ya got a bike yer gonna spend money on someting.

    And redneck Johnny come on down and ride with me.
    You will be runnig a heck of a lot harder than you do now.

    And I'm headed at 44,000 on my bike, do a lot of 2 up riding and carry a lot of gear.
    Lets put that stress on yer bike and see how it runs and how you can keep up.
    You might answer some of yer questions on bike upkeep.

    And I do things to my bike cause I want it to run faster too.
    If I rode like you I'd probaly be gittin 45 mpg on fuel.
    Didn't buy a bike to baby it.
  8. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    one reason your engine makes noises..........the only time ya got stuff in your boxes is when ya go on a trip....most of the time their empty.....
    what did ya decide on buying the new engine???
  9. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep I bought my bike to ride not to work on all the time or have to put it the shop & pay threw the nose for a tune , if I want to throw money at something I have a wife for that :D
  10. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    What? I can't ride hard because I have a Sportster?????? Other than town driving, I average probably about 70 mph at all times, of course where I know where the locals are not too heavy. YOur bike is made for the carrying the load type stuff, mine isn't, and of course when Hot Rider is not along, that was a specific choice.
  11. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, When Cowboy goes to a a carb, does he have to add a VOES?
  12. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    At 70 MPH is your RPM's maxed out:roflmao:
  13. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    Not even close!!!! :fight: I have the rev set to 6k, can go higher if I want to! :cool:
  14. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Was just kidding, your bike will probably kick CB's but in the 1/4 mile but after that he would probably pass you up and keep on leaving you behind. Advantage of a bigger bike with a built motor.
  15. JohnnyBiker

    JohnnyBiker Well-Known Member

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    I know, just playing. :D I have my set up to take off in the higher Rpm range. he has a lot more displacement than I do. But his bike is making noises. :roflmao:
  16. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the more I think about it, CB probably will eat you in the 1/4 mile. Me to, but that's not the kind of ride I want. :)
  17. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Don't forgit, my wife has a 1200 cu nightster.
    YOu got to really stand on it to even keep up with me. And then I still leave you.

    With a full fairing I let off at 105mph.
  18. FLHTbiker

    FLHTbiker Moderator Staff Member

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    Shoot, had my 03 ultra with a 95 kit in it up to 120, was pretty smooth.:D
  19. cardboard

    cardboard Well-Known Member

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    Buddy of mine had a 2010 SE Ultra, he had a D&D 2in1 performance pipe on it and a TW7 woods cam. Had 105 hp and about 110tq.
    When he hit 115mph, his bike went into a High Speed Wobble and threw him off.
    Broke both legs, broke is right ankle and busted both knee caps. Hes still trying to recover.
    Might be able to put presure on his leg in 3 more weeks.


    I did 140 on gps on my Wide Glide.
    But on this big bagger I ain't going that fast.

    Ran a dude on a Sportster with the Wide Glide.
    REally run off and left him.
    It had a 103 kit in it. but not a HD 103 kit.
    I could do 108 in 3rd gear before I hit 4th gear. Then I could do 130 in 4th and not hit the rev limiter.

    Had a cam that didn't come in good till about 2500 rpm, but when it hit, better hold on.
    It pulled on the dyno all way to 6100rpm.
    At my age things happen too fast for that kind of riding anymore.
  20. cowboy

    cowboy Moderator Staff Member

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    shoot On my 03 E glide stock 88 i've peg the 120 mph a few times :D

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