Synthetic Oils Amsoil or HD or

Just stoped using SYN-3 in my 97 FLT, and went back to the standard HD oils. I found that it consumed more oil than what I thought was normal for a evo with only 10k on it, and during hot weather the oil just seemed to me to be too thin to generate good psi. I was told by the local HD service manager that they no longer recomend that evo's use SYN-3.

Nothing Bad about Coventional oil changed every 3000 miles. Nascar, at least 75% run Full Synthetic, 500 mile race, HUM. Synthetic oil does not have all the Dino dodo in it, Dino oil has other things than oil in it from its very nature of being pumped out of the dirt. Those other things burn, turn black, gunk up oil, lower viscosity, cause undo wear ect ect. If you get down to a molecule level, Synthetic oil is same structure as Dino oil without the garbage molecules in it. Smaller, tighter molecule structure as well. Withstands near twice the heat before break down. The commercial with the frying pan and Mobil 1, its fact. Synthetics, true Synthetics will not break down at same temp as Dino oil some where like 150 degrees higher to break down depending on brand, that said, if you change oil regular and dont sit and idle for long periods in traffic in Florida in August Dino oil is ok. I live in Florida and have sat in traffic in Daytona while watching Bank Temp sign at 101f, Pavement had to be 130, oil pressure gauge well under 5lb at idle. I run Mobil 1 V Twin 20W-50, Change 5000 intervals. Run it in Primary, Gear synthetic in trans, 1997 FLHT, 11 years old. Just pulled top end for gaskets more than any thing, cross hatch still visible in cylinders, mic cam journels, .0005 wear from new. Heat and impureties is the main culpret to Dino oil. If you dont run that ragged edge of 2 up in desert heat, with all bags full on ELectra Glide run your fossil oil, your motor. Change every 3000 max. It will be fine. Amsoil is the oldest manufacture of True Synthetic engine oil for general public. Its founder was a Military Fighter Pilot. Military aircraft have used Synthetics for many years because blown engines and jets at 30,000 feet in Dog Fight bad voodoo. Commercial Aircraft also. As far back as WWII. Good stuff. I Have a 2006 Hemi Dodge 4x4 Truck, Amsoil. Also Have a 2007 Dodge Charger R/T Hemi , Mobil 1. These 2 Vehicales require 5W-20 for MDS system to function correctly and required by Chyrsler, Both have life time drive train warrentys. Chyrsler offered Warrenty to 2006 owners in Oct 2007 for 900 bucks, came with 2007 Charger. They DO NOT require synthetic for 3000 mile changes. Dodge dealer uses Mobil 1 brand only, Synthetic and Conventional. I let dealer do the Charger with Synthetic, Have Son Inlaw that works there.(lucky broke me) I change every 6000, max allowed by Chrysler. My Truck I service every 6000 with Amsoil. Dont need to jack up to do. Just think if America changed to synthetic for all Lubrication purpose not just cars, all. Power Plants, Industry, Trains, Mass Transit, ect ect. That alone would go a long way to freeing us from foriegn oil. Mobil 1 now has, High Mileage Syn, 7500 miles and 15000 Miles. Amsoil has 2 year engine warrenty if you change to theirs and their filters. Its catching on. Im old school with 2 Harley Evos, Dyna Low Rider 98, FLHT 97. When Mobil 1 20W-50 V Twin came out years back I switched. Like I said, first time gas tank has been off my FLHT. Its rode in rain, shine, winter , summer, and we have Love Bugs here. Um,Taste good. Hell on paint though.
JP :fight: :roflmao:

Ooooh - the dreaded "oil thread" !!! I wouldn't put SYN-3 or any multigrade (conventional or synthetic) in my lawnmower, let alone a H-D. Been using SAE 50 & 60 (weather depending) Valvoline Racing Oil since 1969 & started using the same weights (even have a gallon of SAE 70 for racing) Red Line Synthetic in several applications in 2001. Couldn't get me to use anything else with a gun to my head & I've NEVER had an oil-related failure - not even a ticking lifter.

The Red Line also carries a multigrade rating (i.e. 20W50) although it's not multigrade - but since it passes the cold-flow tests, they can use that rating & only old farts like me remember the SAE straight-weight ratings. Multigrade oils are for passenger cars, etc. which are liquid-cooled, thermostatically-controlled & run the same temp in July as they do in January - NOT for air (oil) cooled engines like a Harley.

When you see 20W50 on nearly all brands, that means the oil started out being 20 weight & additives were mixed in to make it act like a 50 weight hot. (10W30 starts out being 10 weight, etc.) "Nice theory" said a chemical engineer I worked for. Does it work? In liquid-cooled, thermostatically-controlled engines, kinda - in Harleys or even your lawnmower, no.

The molecular structure is kinda like a licorice stick or a DNA molecule - twisted. As the oil heats up, the structure starts to unwind & gets longer, but when the oil gets too hot, the structure falls apart & you can't put it back together, so your 20W50 ends up being cooked & dirty 20 weight.

Here's just one example of the difference - a while back a store had a heck of a sale on Mobil I 15W50 so I got some & tried it in my '95 Sportster, which typically runs oil temps in the 160-180 range on the backroads, 200 on the interstate. Oil temp shot up to 250 on a 70-degree day on the backroads & I drained that stuff right back out. Went back with straight-weight Valvoline & right back down the oil temps came.

One time I rode 115 miles down the interstate to a city in South Carolina & then sat in traffic on a day over 100 degrees, running Red Line 50 in the same bike. Highest oil temp I saw was 205 & that was stopped @ a red light for a long time. If I see much more than 200 for any length of time I'm going to shut the engne off & find out why - don't give me that "synthetic can take 300 degrees" - I know better & the parts in your engine darn sure won't live very long when the oil temp's much over 200, no matter what brand it is.

Lower oil temps & -0- oil-related parts failures in nearly 40 years on Valvoline straight-weight tells me a lot & 4 bikes setting Land-Speed-Records on Red Line with lower oil temps & absolutely no measureable wear after a whole season of racing does too. Prove to me there's something better & I'll try it - but not until then. And no, Amsoil is not as good as Red Line if you prefer synthetic - they're quite different in formulation & I know that from conversations with chemical engineers.

My 2003 Sporty has around 2800 miles on it. I put on about 500 myself in the short time I've had it. When running it for a little more than an hour on a 45 degree night it got really friggin' hot! I can't imagine how that will play out on a 90 + degree day on a congested highway.

The previous owner said his mechanic changed oil just before I bought it, and Harley just signed off on it after I did the Stage I kit upgrade and had V&H baffles installed in my drag pipes. So, I wasn't planning on an oil change for the next 2000 miles. Perhaps I'll ride a bit and consider the switch to Amsoil in early July.

I have a friend who has 30 + years experience riding. He rides a Screamin' Eagle AND a blackout Dyna. He swears by synthetics. Still, the 2003 is the last CV carb without fuel injection and I don't know if that makes any difference, so I'll take my time before taking the synthetic plunge.

Does the change to Syn affect the tuning?

Wow, I sure spun your clock. I started previous post by saying NOTHING WRONG WITH CONVENTIONAL OIL, CHANGED EVERY 3000 miles. And, Its your motor have a ball. Sure had no gun to anyones head. I do not disagree in States that dont have extremly cold winters straight wieght is great. Like Florida where I swore by straight weight oil most of my adult life. Untill I learned to read. Start your bike in 20 degree weather with straight 50 weight and it dont pump to well for a while. Hence Multi Grade to facilitate Lubrication at start up where, "hope we can agree" 80% of engine wear occures. To each his own I said in several ways. Lighten up already. There are many if not all engine manufactures today that Require the use of Multi Grade Oils during the warrenty period, Motor Cycle Air and Liquid cooled engines also. Like Harley Davidson, Victory, Honda. Air cooled Porsch requires Full Synthetic, Guess what, they designed the cooling aspects of the EVO for Harley that saved the Company from Chapter 11. The older Iron Head Harleys were luckey to get 35000 miles on a top end, and thats good ? Heat was the reason why. They cooled like crap. Corvette requires Full Synthetic, the list is long. V 10 Dodge Viper. True life event for ya. My wife and I back in 1998 or 99 in Daytona at Bike week. We made the mistake of attending the Super Bike race on Sunday in the infield on our 2 Harleys. Mine had 20-50 Mobil 1, Hers still under warrenty was running Harley 20-50 conventional. Both changed before trip up. We had to sit in a line on Highway 92 in front of race track for about 3 hrs to get in infield, Starting and stopping. Hot day in the high 80's, lots of idleing. Some pushing because bikes were getting to hot. Even water cooled Japanese bikes were over heating. We both developed rough idle. After return home discovered with the dreaded WD 40 at intake seals we had smoked the rubber there. Vacume leaks, both bikes. No big deal changed seals. When I drained the oil from both. The Harley oil looked like 5 week old coffee and felt in your fingers like snot. The Mobil 1 although dark but still clear enouh to see dip stick still felt like oil and did not stink like burnt bacon. That what convenced me. I was trying to add some unspoken ideas into the conversation on how synthetics are made and they will, withstand more heat. The parts about required warrenty concerns and what air craft use is all facts easely verified if one wants to compare Dino Fat to Syntheticly engineered absolutely clean no contamination oil. Again I dont care if you run Bacon Fat in you stuff. Under normal circumstances Conventional oil is great and cheap for those who dont want the added protection of Synthetic. I have had some wonderfull lawn mowers that ran years on cheap straight wieght oil and Motorcycles too as well as many Hot Rods couple chain saws too. Hell I remember the first calculator. Had no AC growing up in Florida either, first color tv was a hoot, but times are a changing. The rides I have now I plan to keep so I choose to go with what I think is the best protection. My lawn equipment gets straight wieght cheap stuff. But it did not cost Thousands of dollars or have strict warrenty requirements. JP
This is fun. :roflmao:

Hellboy, No differant except on a Dyno , you might get slightly more HP and Torque with Synthetic. On big high HP Hot Rod engines, like Dragsters Top Fuel and the like they will not put conventional in it. The ones that still do if they exsist dont win to many events. Im leaving before Grand Pa comes back. I am a Grand Pa by the way. Been riding bikes since early 60's. Have fun. JP
:fight: :cussing: :witsend:

For Sportsters, the CV carb was installed thru 2006.

Does synthetic change the tuning? Nope.

Chuck...you are one sick dude, but, I like it. :cheers:

oilchange

real life,,,a friend of mine has a 85 goldwing,,,70000 miles on it,,,on a trip two years ago we put 15000 on in 35 days,,, he never changed oil,,, when i questioned him ,,,at my second change in savanah ,,,he replied when he put syn oil in at 10000 miles they told him he would not have to ever change oil again,,,so he hasent,,, he says just add to,,, pops,,, oh,,, he also runs cheapest gas possible,,,

amsoil

First let me say that if you change the oil on a regular basis no matter the bike, it should run well for a long time. But to amsoil defense my dad used to be a independent dealer and I can attest to its great benefits. I used in my car before and I did notice a big difference in gas mileage and engine temps.
My dad also used to get a magazine from amsoil with customer testamonies and experiences using the product. one story was from a gentleman that owned a motorcycle and used the oil that his dealer recommended and had problems with the oil return line on the bike after he had the motor tore down do do some engine and tranny work. the oil return line was plugged almost all the way with sludge. NOT SOMETHING I WANT IN MY MOTOR HOW ABOUT YOU! he then switched to amsoil and when he had the clutch replaced for the second time he noticed that the oil return line was completely clean without any sludge whatsoever. I forgot to mention that this man had over 150,000 miles on this bike and at the time of the printing it was still running strong. I couldnt believe it either but I read the article and saw the man in the magazine with his bike. He was from california so he had many chances to put many miles on his machine, so I figure if this stuff can do this for this bike then what can it do for mine?
I plan on using it in my motorcycle this year and every year after that, plus you have to ask yourself one question when it comes to your bike. Do I want to invest the money into it so that I can get the most out of it and make sure that it will provide years of riding pleasure. JMO!

HOPE YOU FIND THE INFO HELPFUL

Be careful! You know what happened to the Pope when he went to Mount Olive don't you?

Popeye beat the crap outa him!

Art_NJr

Thanks Art, I thought 2003 was the last. Guess I was thinking about rubber mounts and fuel injection being added in 2004, but I could be wrong about that too! Still got a huge learning curve to get around.

For Sportsters, the rubber-mount engine/frame change did happen in 2004, but the fuel injection didn't come out 'till 2007. I like the new ones, but they're about 65 lbs. heavier, won't lean over as far & just aren't as "nimble".

Call me an old fart all day long, but IMO, the last real Sportster was made in 2003 & while I might sell the '00 model some day, you'd have to shoot me to get the '95.

My 2003 Sporty IS a really fun ride. I'm conservative on highways, but a bit aggressive on the street and the Sporty handles really well in tight city traffic.

WTFC's about what jets use for oil

You know I read all these comments from guys about oil, and there is always some dude that has to say "well jet engines use syn oil"... Really? Who the F*** cares when I am running a engine that is doing an average of 3k RPM?

Yeah.....I think we have discussed oil more than all the members of OPEC. Might have sell the bike, buy a camel and tie a rag around my head. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I stopped drinking synthetic it made my seat crappy
Sorry about that. Ole Ted