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Synthetic Oils Amsoil or HD or

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by sbox, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. AZroaddust

    AZroaddust New Member

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    Oh S--- Oh Dear! Go ahead, I'm sitting down and I can take it. Got my nitro pills next to me just in case too. What's wrong with my '95 Piglett 883 (converted to 1200)?:wtf:
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2008
  2. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    i think he means, that is the only way you will get it from him,,,,,no amount of money would buy it!!!!:)
  3. AZroaddust

    AZroaddust New Member

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    Oh thank you! I DID misread that and I was really freaked out.:gah: I love my widdle sporty and it is so much fun to ride.

    IF I ever do sell it, I think the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole and I'd probably part it out.

    I should up-date my pics someday. I've added a lot more chrome remembering the old saying "if it doesn't move, chrome it".

    Thanks again. I'll sleep better tonight!
  4. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    The consensus seems to be that bikes run cooler with Amsoil. That's preferable isn't it?
  5. AZroaddust

    AZroaddust New Member

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    Bikes run cooler with oil coolers.

    J&P Cycles® Milwaukee Twins™Dual Cool

    This is very similar to what I have, and even at over 110 F deg. ambient, my oil has never gone over 180. Just a thought.
  6. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    My.02... any 20-50 or 15-50 will lube the engine.As long as it is 50 summer weight. Syn is better than fossil but not really needed unless you live in a hot climate(southern US or the like)Still not needed but better.The biggest differecne in auto 20-50 and motorsickle 20-50 is the label on the jug and price.I know the scientists will chime in,got one in the family and he's a hired gun for various oil company's in Canada and the US to analyze and do what scientists do for their employer's. I talked to Barnett,Primo and BDL and they all recommend ATF in the primary.Two of them Type F non syn and 1 DextronIII. So all thats left is the tranny so you can spend your extra money on whatever label you choose as long as its gear oil.
    Bottom line is any oil is better than no oil, and it's not smart enuf to kno what type of engine its protecting,it will just do it. Change regularly and you'll have no problems. 140,000 miles on heritage still orig bottom end and a lot of 100MPH cruzin.:devil:
  7. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    Cooler is certainly better, but I have seen no oil temp differences in my Sportsters between conventional & synthetic - comparing grade for grade. And the highest oil temp I ever saw was a test with with 15W50 Mobil I - 250 degrees.

    The 2 main engine oils I use are SAE 50 Valvoline Racing Oil (black jug) & Red Line Synthetic (also carries the 20W50 rating) & my oil temps are typically 160-180 on the backroads & 2-lane higways around here in N.C. & 200 on an extended interstate run. Once I saw 205 stuck in traffic after a 115-mile run down the interstate. I'll go to 60 weight in hotter weather but the oil temps stay the same. (Red Line carries the multi-grade rating 'cause it can pass the cold-flow tests that conventional straight-weight can't, but it's not multi-grade).

    Friend of mine @ ECS Engineering makes the simplest & most efficient oil-cooler I've seen which guys who ride the BT's that have a problem running hot (like an Ultra Classic) use & another friend who rides a Sportster in the awful Jakarta, Indonesia traffic does too. I don't need it but for an engine that does, it drops oil temp 50 degrees & even more in some applications.

    The man in Jakarta was running in the 225 degree range with straight-weight Valvoline, the cooler dropped that to 175 & in testing, ECS left an Electra Glide running @ 2000 rpm in a parking lot for 1/2 hour in the summer - oil never even got close to 200 degrees (conventional Valvoline). That's a big deal 'cause most coolers are the radiator type that need some air moving thru to carry the heat away & do basically nothing sitting still - don't need to be moving for the ECS cooler to work.

    Yes, I've seen all the hype about this or that oil being able to handle 250 degrees, 275 & even 300, but your engine can't handle it for long. If I see much more than 200 for any length of time, I'm going to shut the engine off & find out why 'cause I know for an indisputable fact both the oil & especially the engine will last a lot longer if you don't run much over 200. I certainly won't allow it on my bikes.

    I don't like some things about Amsoil the co., but I know of a fella who has the highest-milage Victory in the world & that's what he uses. I'll stick with what I know works, but no matter what brand you choose, the 2 most important things are the right additive package for the application & the right weight for the conditions.
  8. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    queston art......if your only hitting a max of 180 temp on your oil, it seems that condinsate water that accumilates will not boil off, as water boils at 210 at sea level.............i know you change oil often, but some folks follow hd recomendations, and condinsate could get rather high if the oils dont heat up acordanly............:)
  9. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Great reply Art, thanks.
  10. GreyBear

    GreyBear New Member

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    Oils and oil changes

    I have used synthetics in the Dyna since I got it 25K ago. I used them in my Evo as well with no problems. Back in the Pan and Shovel days I used straight 70 weight Valvoline summer and 50 in the winter and that worked. The big deal, in my mind is changing the oil and filter. No matter how great an oil is it gets dirty, picks up stuff, gets condensation etc. With dino oil I changed every 2K with synthetics I take it 4. Yes, I realize there are people that insist that synthetics will do 10K + and be fine, and if they want to run it that long kewl. Me I change the oil and filter. Is it expensive? Sure, but compared to a new engine it's still pretty cheap. And one thng about synthetics.....as far as I know no percentage of Mobil1 profits go to fund IED's and suicide bombers. And to me that's worth digging a little deeper in my pocket.

    Ride Free, Bear
  11. ringo912

    ringo912 Active Member

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    Art...I see you mention not running over 200 degrees. I have an 02" Heritage, the shop manual shows normal operating for my bike is 240 degrees. It usually runs about 200 when I ride alone, when I have it loaded up for a trip with gear and the ole lady, it runs about 230.
  12. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    The oil tank temp does not need to get hot enough to boil water as the parts & combustion temps the oil encounters are a LOT higher. Remember we're dealing with a "dry sump" oil system, where the vast majority of the oil is in the tank most of the time & if you're using a tank gauge like I am, you're measuing the average temp *after* the oil has gone through the engine & is cooling off in the tank. Seeing 180 @ the tank does not mean that the oil in the rocker boxes, on the valve stems, the cyl. walls, etc. is 180 - it's a LOT hotter than that.

    And again I'll mention the huge difference between a thermostatically-controlled, liquid-cooled engine that heats up quick & then runs the same temp in July as it does in January - it doesn't rely on oil very much for cooling - but in a Harley, oil is THE major factor in cooling. Due to the design, H-D engines don't need a lot of oil *pressure*, but they do need a lot of oil *flow* & the major reason is to pick up heat from one place & transfer it someplace else.

    Couple examples are the oil running thru the rocker boxes picking up the heat transferred up the valve stems & the oil squirters on newer engines that spray the bottom side of the pistons to cool them down - you've got to keep that oil moving & get the heat absorbed from the combustion process out of the engine & you've got to do it quick.

    So even when the tank temp is well below 200, the oil will encounter temps going thru the engine as much as 6 times that high. Also, moisture & other contaminants should be picked up by the filter, so if the oil in the tank has nasty stuff in it, both it & the filter need to be changed immediately.
  13. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    art, now you make sense.....your reading tank temp not actual oil temps. i have my temp in the return line out of the engine.....more acurate.....thanks for clearing that up for me....and thanks for your posts.................:)
  14. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    If the temp is measured by the typical oil tank guage, H-D is just plain wrong & excusing the fact that most BT engines run hot to begin with. In some situations like with a fairing & lowers, "parade duty" & such, there's not enough airflow around the engine to sweep heat away. But often the engine is set to run too lean & the ignition timing is a bit fast - H-D's come that way from the factory 'cause an engine set like that will pass emissions tests easier.

    But even tuned up real good, BT's do tend to run hot, even with high quality straight-weight oil, so if that's the case, an oil-cooler is the way to go. No "sales pitch" here as I don't make a dime if anyone buys the cooler, but as mentioned, the best one I've ever seen for a H-D is made by ECS Engineering. There's a little website & that product isn't even listed because demand is so high no advertising is needed, but if I needed an oil-cooler, that's exactly what I'd get.

    BTW, the shop owner is also a mechanical engineer & has 40+ years H-D experience - he'll tell you the same thing I do - high oil temps kill engines.

    - Art
  15. Art_NJr

    Art_NJr New Member

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    One more thing

    Read the article posted here:
    ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Oil Temperature and Engine Life

    It's geared to 911 Porsche engines & puts the "optimum" oil temp for those engines @ 180-210. I wish the viscosity chart showed oil that's heavier than 15W50, but those engines have much tighter clearances than a typical H-D does & are designed for lighter oils, but you'll still get a very good idea of what happens to oil & your engine as the oil gets hotter & how thinner oils compare with heavier.
  16. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    this site has been posted here before......i will post it again.

    Bob Is The Oil Guy

    it appears that folks cant get enough of "oil talk".........:roflmao:
  17. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner New Member

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    Amsoil or HD are both fine. Really any synthetic is better at heat dissipation and lubricity. I've been using Mobil 1 15w50 in both the engine and tranny. 2003 HD DWG since after break-in. Also bumped the heads/cylinders/pistons and Mobil has been my best freind for a long time now. (Really cheap too and available most anywhere...Walmart etc.) Synthetics don't shear up in the gears either. Hope this helps.
  18. HellBoy

    HellBoy New Member

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    Just posted this on another thread, but it pertains to this subject:

    My 2003 Sporty has a quirky neutral also. I can be riding for twenty minutes and all of a sudden, neutral's hard to find. Five minutes later, no problem again. Sometimes it happens after I make a slightly awkward shift. Harley's done the stage 1 upgrade. Two of their tech's rode it and another 30 year riding vet as well, they all said it was fine. Who knows? I plan to change to Amsoil either in July or November, depending on how it runs during really hot weather. I recall that some find neutral easier after changing to synthetics.
  19. AZroaddust

    AZroaddust New Member

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    Thanks HellBoy! I thought it was just me and my shift habits. Every now and then I think somebody stole my neutral and I really have a hard time finding it.:gah:

    You may have given me reason to try some synthetic finally!
  20. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    as has been said before.....also check primary chain tension, clutch adjustment at the clutch basket and the clutch lever.........:)

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