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Ultima El Bruto Motors

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Tech Talk' started by paco, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. chucktx

    chucktx Moderator Staff Member

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    hey paco........great job!!!! as for the adjuster....check some "nut/bolt suppliers. "fasinall" (sp)? comes to mind. they have allen screws in different lengths. they may have what ya need!!! thanks for the up date, and i also think ya got yourself a "tar baby"!!!!!:)
  2. Ultra Al

    Ultra Al New Member

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    Well at least Im not the only one who runs into nothing ever fitting. Its like, welcome to the world of custom motorcycles where nothin ever fits LOL. Sounds like you got your self a fire breather, congrats. AL
  3. paco

    paco New Member

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    Hello all,

    Well all is well with the motor at 3500-4000 mile marker. Runs like a scalded dog or a cut cat. a lot of top end noise. Installed the ultima 6 speed which works like a charm, however I don't use the 6 th gear that much here i rural alabama. The riveria pro clutch transfers the power to the ground without slipping so my life is wonderful! right ? wrong......When I installed the trans I replaced the inner primary seal. Well it leaked like a bit*h. so couple days ago, I took it back down a replaced it again. rode a couple hundred miles stopping occasionally, never noticed it leaking. went to the shop and that sombitsh had a puddle oil under it !!!! :banghead: now this ain't the first seal i ever put in on this bike so i don't know, but i got to lick this calf again and I hate to have to do it.:gah: any suggestions ?
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
  4. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    God been there bud's 113 elbruto and the primary that leaks from hell!

    Seals, gaskets and leaks, it's nickname is the Valdez

    Seems like whenever we fix a leak the damn thing finds a way to squeeze oil out some other hole. LOL
  5. paco

    paco New Member

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    hotroadking,

    the 113 doing ok now ? I wondered about it the other day. No more problems I hope, other than the leaking .

    another question, what exhaust system are ya'll using ? V&H 2-1 is great for power and all, but I can't hear sh*t. Is there something I can get that is a little quieter, but not sacrifice so much of the preformance.....?

    thanks
    later.............................
  6. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    the 113 is running good we've run into a bit of leaking from time to time

    It also seems like after the build it has more pressure built up in the motor than the head breathers can exhale, so we t'd off the pressure relief line from the cases to the trans and t'd it into the hose we ran down from the head breathers, seems to have fixed that issue, also put on a New Baker Trans dip stick unit that screws into the housing to keep the dip stick from doing a double flip out the side under hard acceleration.


    As to exhaust that's pretty straight forward, we dumped the propipe for a Supertrapp Supermeg 2-1, with the endcap and 20 disks it's super quiet on cruising rpm, so quiet you'll spend the next few month chasing all those rattles you didn't know existed LOL

    Power is good, looks great too.
  7. paco

    paco New Member

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    hotroadking,

    what is your opinion on the ultima and the voe switch? some say it needs to be installed and some say not to . I installed mine in the beginning and have had no problems. I have heard lately that it isn't needed and could cause problems. thanks

    later...............
  8. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I have discussed this with Midwest Motor tech dept and John Sachs of So Fl who does a lot of work for Midwest,

    The consensus is never ever ever put a VOES on a Midwest Stroker

    It will burn it up with internal heat for major piston and cyl damage.

    If it were me I'd take it off ASAP
  9. paco

    paco New Member

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    hotroadking,

    thanks for the information. i had not heard this until a day or so ago. my voe has been on my bike from day one. I figured if anybody would know you would. I have since disconnected it . I guess takeing the vacuum line off the voe will work ? and plugging the line to the carb. One would think that they would put it in the owners manual.

    Thanks again.

    later..........
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  10. fxdxriderleo

    fxdxriderleo Active Member

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    on your leak what did you use as a gasket sealer. on my 03 fxdx when i had a leak between the primary and transmisson the dealer fixed it at the 1000 mile service. he said there wasn't a gasket in there just a sealer. so if you use a good sealer you shouldn't leak.
  11. strickt9Rob

    strickt9Rob Active Member

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    Paco when you installed the Ultima six speed, did you install the new pimary race on the tranny main shaft that came with. If this is not in place properly it wonnt let the inner primary seal properly. also good Idea to change inner primary bearing and seal, they also use a type silicone RTV when installing the new seal ........Nice job on your Ultima113" project. I just put the 120" Ultima in my 95 Heritage. I read thru all of your therads before I started my project. finished it last week Just started to break it in.Then we get 4 1/2 inches of snow in greater upstate NY gota luv it..Good ....Luck...strickt9Rob

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  12. paco

    paco New Member

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    strickt9Rob,

    Yes I did use the new race that is supplied with the 6 sp. I just took it back down and replaced the inner primary bearing and seal. I moved the new race a little closer to the drive sprocket. The last seal that I put in a month ago looked cut for some reason. thought i might have hit it on the splines, so a taped the splines and a friend helped me put the inner primary back and not touch anything. the race is flush with the inner primary bearing when i mounted the inner primary,looked perfect.... put everything back together. rode a couple hundred miles yesterday, went out this morning to find a small puddle of oil had leaked onto the shop floor. not as much but still leaking!!!:banghead:

    Good looking bike and a good looking job, well done ...enjoy!

    later................
  13. strickt9Rob

    strickt9Rob Active Member

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    Primary

    Paco, as I recall the race should be 1/16th off the spline towards the tranny thus giving the enough of the race, for the seal to set on, and seal properly. I know how when you go thru a job like that,and everythings new and you still have sh*t like that happenig. Nothing major but it just shouldn't be. Thanks for the comp's on my bike, really like that square motor.can't wait till it's broke in................Thanks............strick9Rob.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  14. strickt9Rob

    strickt9Rob Active Member

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    Voes

    Paco, I was just reading thru one of your earlier threads on VOES on your 113 Ultima Did a programable ignition come with it? Because if it did you can program the timing curve with it. My 120 Ultima came with just thier Ultima single fire ignition. 5 wires 1 hot coil + wire 2 - coil wires front & rear cylinders Voes wire and tach wire I had to hook up the VOES for it to ramp wright. I might opt for a programable ignition down the road................ later ..................................strickt9Rob.
  15. paco

    paco New Member

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    strickt9Rob,

    my engine came with the same ignition as yours. i diconnected it at the advise hotroadking gave in post #48:

    I have discussed this with Midwest Motor tech dept and John Sachs of So Fl who does a lot of work for Midwest,

    The consensus is never ever ever put a VOES on a Midwest Stroker

    It will burn it up with internal heat for major piston and cyl damage.

    If it were me I'd take it off ASAP


    after i disconnected it i had to adjust the idle and seem to have lost a little throttle response, but it seems to run just as well.

    later............
  16. hotroadking

    hotroadking Super Moderator Staff Member

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    We had a ton of issues with cyl fit, heat etc with the Midwest 113, spent quite a while having the same discussions on VOES with Bill at Bishops, we talked about it but after talking with John and the Midwest tech warranty reps they both said to never run the VOES.

    Also Midwest went to a non programmable ignition on the newer elbrutos to keep the timing pulled back and not allow changing. Just be very careful if you time the motor or let a dyno operator tune it, they'll advance the curve and give you 5 more HP but it's at the expense of the lift of the motor. So stay a little behind in the timing.

    As to Inner primarys, if you're getting the leak, I'd advise you to buy a Zippers High performance inner primary bearing. It eliminates the inner race, this race can walk with high performance motors, if it walks in to the primary it cuts the seal, if it walks out it can go into the tranny seal and cause problems.

    the High tq bearing eliminates the inner race, you pull it off the mainshaft and run the new bearing, much better setup.
  17. strickt9Rob

    strickt9Rob Active Member

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    Voes

    hotroadking,& paco Hey! thanks guy's for the heads up on the voes.I did have it hooked up I put about 140 miles on it with it hooked up. last nite I was going thru some of the threads and saw you guy's talking about it.and I left a thread. I started thinking about it went to the manual that came with the engine.Read thru the ignition part again.It say's in there that the ignition is set up for the advance ramp. so I just pulled the wire.I checked the voltage comming from that wire out of the ignition,and there's 12volts there
    so when you do unhook it make sure you don't ground it! not sure if it would damage the ignition? The switch's and the hose are still hooked up but I'll have to pull the right side tank to get at the switch and cap off the vacuum barb,out of the carb. paco,I would unhook the power to the switch also.that might have something to do with your little loss in throtle response or check and make sure the cap or plug you used is vacuum tight. it was cold here today never got out above 40 .After I unhooked that voes I fired up the bike. I don't know if it was in my head, or what but it seemed like it started easier I mean it started almost as soon as I hit the starter swiich. didn't see any difference excellaration.Really can't tell unless your riding it.We got 4 1/2 inches of snow Saturday nite, isn't that a beautifull thing? Well thanks again for the heads up. I would not have liked to burn up that new motor. Maybe get some miles on it later in the week. This Is A Great Bike Site!! .....Later.

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