Wont idle with chokecompletely off

99 FXST EVO

Just bought first big twin. I love it...
Trying to figure out how to keep the sumb*tch running at idle with choke / enrichment lever down...
Have S&S Super E, gravity-flow gas tank valve (non vacuum)
I start bike w/ choke ( S&S calls it a vacuum assisted enrichment lever)
After warm up I can only push the choke back down about halfway( Not Flush with breather )
I opened up the Idle mixture screw one full turn - no change
S&S manual says you must run motor with choke all way down or you will foul plugs...

Any ideas???
Thanks in advance

addendum -thnks for all your suggestions. before I start monkeying w/ the carb adjustments I think I'll try a new set of plugs ( just in case they're fouled) ** even tho' I have the S&S E and the Andrews cam upgrade my local stealership recommends standard Harley plugs - hope he's right....

Is your intake sealed good.....might have to clean carb,sounds like the idle circuit might be plugged up....or too small of intermediate jet....

could it be as simple as turning the butter fly stop screw in a little??

UPDATE

changed plugs.. saw some improvement

They recommend HD Standard EVO ( not gold or platinum)
I got two pregapped sets under $7pair
I pulled the old ones (they were HD platinum )
& they were BLACK with soot!
I prolly fouled them the first day I had it & was starting it w/ throttle open ( giving it the old chevy double pump before starting)

New plugs in-- started right up... rode about 4 miles - able to get the choke / enrichment lever all way down while riding...
Idles real nice but died anyway ...Dont trust that confounded lever at Stop light.
I'm slowly learning things about this beast!

Thanks for the help

Mike Bixby
Index of /~mbixby
MySpace.com - Mike Bixby - 50 - Male - Texas - www.myspace.com/mikebxb
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Same problem on older bike

The choke cable was snapped internally sometimes it would work and others not. When off, although the lever was still in the off position the cable would vibrate pushing the lever on at the carb Black plugs, coughin and spluterin then die.
Just a thought

Trying to send you attachments to S&S carbs...Hope it works

Hotroadking,

again, Thnx for the tips.
I monkeyed with the Idle mixture screw last nite ( after reading the S&S procedure ) It says "seat" the idle mix screw ( clockwise to bottom ) Then back up 1.5 turns - almost wound up having to push my horse home LOL. 1.5 turns was way too lean & starving it for fuel! You must be more correct backing up 2.5 turns..
I also have the andrews cam upgrade so maybe that contributes to a rough idle.
I went thru my paper work & it's got a SS Super E 93up carb
with a 68 main & 28 intermediate jets
Its NOT clogged fuel as.. with the breather off, one twist of throttle & that sucker shoots plenty of fuel towards the throat (even with the motor off)

If I thought I could run safely with a stock carb ...I'd fleabay this S&S & go back to original carb. (the guy paid $380 in 1999) but now with the Cam & exhaust upgrades I'll wind up chasing my tail...I'm not against performance..SS is well respected but dammit I dont wanna stall at every stop light or have to race the motor to keep it running..

Whacker, thnx for the pdf
I dig the duct tape comment.
What would knots in your baleing wire indicate? overengineering??
duct tape , baleing wire & occasional wad of gum holds it all together baby!

Mikebxb, at 28 I'd guess you are running too light on the intermediate. I've got a 1991 FLHS, with cam and pipe upgrades, and I'm running a 29.5 on the intermediate jet. I'm also running a 70 on the main jet. I tried using a 28 to better mileage for back and forth to work. Not only was it a real dog, but I had to set the accelerator pump up to compensate for the low fuel coming in. After going to a 29.5, it got better mileage, that is if I ride like I have some sense.

When you speak of the carb shooting lots of fuel, it is the accelerator pump doing that. Most bikes I've seen have this set too heavy (screw is on the right side of the throat of the carb, looks like the idle stop screw on the left of the throat) to compensate for having too small a jet on intermediate. Good place to start that, is to turn it in (gently!) until you feel it tighten just a bit, then back it off 1 1/2 turn. If you can "blip" the throttle without it popping through the carb, and response is decent, you are likely close on that.

Also, if you are having trouble idling, make sure bike is up to operating temp, then set idle to 850-950 rpm. The low loping sound sounds good and all, but if you want it to ride nice, and not stumble so much, set it at least as high as the manual states for stock. Bigger cam = more loping = more stumbling if you leave idle set too low.

Goats_hogs,

thnx glad I found this forum ...good info

whats the formula?
bigger the number (jet) the more fuel flow??
i e
jet 68 allows less fuel flow than 70??

My objective is not to outrun another Harley. Or a jillion mpg's.
Just a nice low dependable idle & reasonable avg throttle response

yes, lower number is less fuel. Higher number is more fuel flow. I'm like you on the mileage really. I'm getting pretty well 40 plus or minus depending on how I choose to ride it. But mine is heavier, that's a picture of it in my avatar. You could get mid 40's with the upgrades you have, and still run well. Unless the 68 is giving you problems, or you plan on wringing the bike out at high RPMs, it is not likely to give you a problem. Too lean at high RPM can burn hole in the top of pistons, not a good thing! I'd go with a 29.5 on the intermediate, then dial the carb back in. Every time you change jets, you will need to adjust the idle mixture screw, and likely the idle stop screw.

Todays update

new fuel premium
removed breather
turned Idle mixture screw in all the way ( gently)
backed out 2.5 complete (360 degree) turns
cranked
...wont idle
bucks, snorts.. pops fire from carb & exhaust
pulled plugs, cleaned , reinstalled plugs
backed out 1 more complete turn =totalling 3.5 turns from down
cranked
....idles but not without help
backed out 1 more complete turn = totalling 4.5 turns counterclockwise
cranked w/ lever (choke) up
....starts warms up, smooths out a little
while assisted idling I push lever down suprisingly it keeps running & the awful sucking noise goes away.
....Idling but cannot let go of throttle, must keep slight pressure on throttle to keep running...
Hell of a lope. nice. but dont know if its normal big twin or CAM related
Do all you riders out there ride these things with the threat of stall without constant ( I mean constant) attention to the throttle?????

WHICH leads me to think maybe theres a tension adjustment on the throttle that needs attention????

Your thoughts???

See if this works right on here. If it does, this video is of my 1991 back early in the summer, just before I changed the jet to the 29.5. It ran ok this way, but was not nearly as good as it is now.



Anyway, no to your question. Most riders ride these things without much of any off idle problems. I still think the thing for you to do is start out with something you know for fact. My point being, you just got the bike, and even though it says 28 on the jet, that don't mean a thing. The jet that came in my bike said 29.5, but was drilled out and was closer to a 35 or so. I suggest you get a 29.5 from an S&S dealer (most Harley shops around me have the jets for these) and then start with the idle set about 2 turns out, give or take. After warming it up, Follow what HotRoadKing said in the first post to adjust it. Be sure to close the accelerator pump, so not to get a false reading from it.

Also, I checked my main jet, and I said wrong before. I'm running a 72 so that's 29.5 and 72. That is what the S&S carb actually comes with when new, and is based on standard to slightly modified 80 in EVO. (IE, Pipes and cam)

Goats_Hogs,

(that wouldnt be goats as in "GTO" ???) Oh well

1st the video worked great!
Sweet ride.... fantastic sound
no reason my little EVO cant run & sound like yours without having to "man" the throttle.
I'm gonna TRY not to monkey with adjustments as I have it somewhat rideable now & an appt next week with a freind that works on them
(see my Myspace page for pics of the hardtail shovel he built from boxes to bustin bugs)
I'll pass along these jet size suggestions..
You guys are really helpin this old fart get an education on all things Harley.
I'd much rather experience a little of the frustration of keepin these scooters runnin than droppin it off at a dealer & throwin $$ at the problem.
When you have your own sweat in something its more appreciated

I had trouble with my sportty with a 29.5 intermediate jet,put in a 31 and it idled better and didn't cough,I thought it would be to rich,but it worked for me.....

Yeah Mike, it was as in GTO. I had a 67 Tempest that I semi-cloned with engine and suspension from a GTO, but left it look like the Tempest. Then I had a 70 GTO numbers matching, with a 400 and 4 speed from the factory. I worked on, fixed up, and drove it for 5 years. After that I had a Grand Prix with a 462 fuel injected race engine in it. I sold it two years ago and got deeper into the Harleys.

Yes, working on your own bike is best. And should you break down sometime, you will have a better chance at fixing it by the roadside..... and they all break down at some point.

Here's a couple of pictures of them....